Decadence, drawdown and deceptive sales

Monevator has a weekend reading where the general sentiment is that investors have been taking some heat of late. I have become a pussy, it seems, as I can’t really say I have taken such a lot of stick, although the high rate of inflation makes that hard to observe. I found it hard to get excited about investing this year. I ended up buying some VGOV this year because I couldn’t think what to do with it, but I took @Jam’s comment on board. I’ve already given gold the order of the boot from the ISA and I don’t want to replace it with another bed blocker where there are acceptable alternatives. I kind of like @ZXSpectrum48k’s poetic comment

You don’t buy gold. You sell something else and gold is where you wait hoping for the problem to pass.

It’s true for those who trade it, which makes sense for younger folk. For me it is to reduce the ulcer index, so I don’t trade it against something else, its job is to help me look at other hits with equanimity, although I will take the CGT harvesting of gains/offsetting losses function. But it shouldn’t be in the ISA, until I have exhausted all other unwrapped investments. There is nothing wrong with trading gold, but you don’t reduce the ulcer index doing that. But you do get the profit from rebalancing – it’s a different aim, more suited to those in accumulation.

I clearly have no talent for this index investing malarkey, I buy in Vanguard, usually some in May and a larger part towards the end of October and then transfer these index holdings after April the next year to HL, where they go to die it seems. HL is my dump for Vanguard stocks, my main ISA is still with iWeb.

It’s not as bad as HL show, since the gain in Vanguard isn’t copied over, they are marked to market on entry to HL, but yes, I’d say the last couple of years has been a wash for indexy types. One problem is brokers show you P/L on the cost of buying the shares relative to current price. For a young gun who is all about growth that gives a good approximation to the performance, but for an old git shifting to income that writes off all dividend income, which I use to buy more shares, often in something else. Brokers treat that as you putting in more cash. In a transfer ISA you can’t put in more cash. I track the overall PL using Quicken and R.

There’s some scuttlebutt that Jezza may raise the ISA allowance to 30k. Dunno if that’s from next year, or if I can top up this year by 10k on top of a fully loaded ISA. I intend to grab about as much as I can of this, ahead of a change in government. The Budget is on the 22nd November. It’s a clear sop to the better off, while I was working it would have been a very serious challenge to fill a 30k ISA, and pay the mortgage, and get to eat…

decumulation diversions

I read Monevator’s recent decumulation post (paywall). TA has started his decumulation journey relatively recently, retiring a couple of years ago (non-paywall), and crunch from the shift of the gearstick from forward to reverse is hard on the nerves. It’s difficult to gauge your future ride. Maybe I am getting decadent, but I am now wasteful compared to TA. I suspect that TA has rather more in hand than the example, though he says it bears a passing resemblance to his situation. As he says 1

any deaccumulation portfolio is going to be a one-size-fits-none affair.

Nevertheless, I am going to stick my neck out and agree that £28k for a child-free couple feels quite tight. I have lived the decumulation life for over 10 years now, I have gotten used to the sound of the engines in the final approach. They are old, and the sound is rough and noisy – there was a recent week when my networth saw more lift than the annual salary I earned at the high-water mark of my erstwhile career, there will be days of more suckout I am sure.

TA is a far more rational investor than my degenerate active self, his model self will need to push the boat out in years to come, I suspect 😉 TA’s article was predicated on the child-free, and the first question was ‘what about people with kids’.

As a grizzled old IFA said of his clients wittering on about how much they loved their precious kids

They would rather die with their riches like Tutankhamun, than see their children enjoy while they are alive. (Boomers unfortunately)

That IFA would like a word in your shell-like 😉

Moving on, it’s an interesting track through a similar pathless land I experienced, and it’s worth looking at how a sensible captain would have planned the journey. I started mine in my late forties, TA probably started accumulating earlier. He chose his time and place of battle with more control and intent, I blundered into the situation, as the GFC rotted my work environment, and I was either not resilient enough or other problems meant this did my nut in.

The classic planned FI/RE journey is like the track of an aircraft. Lifting up under power through your working life, and then as it reaches the edge of space the captain flicks a switch and cuts the power, the ideal is a glide path to landing, roughly your date of death, in practice because nobody wants to think about the date of death, we usually take age 100 as a serviceable proxy. It’s theoretically attainable but hardly anyone gets there2, so it’s good enough.

I was late to start accumulating, and most of the power failed under the load in the ascent. But I had advantages – I was at the height of my earning power, had seen decent career progression, and had largely paid down my mortgage. I had paid it down because I had a rotten experience of residential property in the greatest financial mistake of my life buying a house in the late 1980s.

I do not list housing as any part of my networth, similarly ignoring the residential property in TA’s example, I inquired of Quicken how much I started off with, and it was about 2/3 of TA’s example, in real terms. Which was probably not enough. The fact I am here a decade later writing about it looking short shows that I got away with it, in that respect I am a lived example for a decent prognosis of at least one of the FireCalc tracks that would have applied in 2012. Acknowledged I am rather a long way off the mythical 100, decumulation is a race you can only say you’ve beaten the odds just at the point when it doesn’t matter any more 😉

I computed that I needed three years from the start point in March 2009 to get enough. I tried no end of spreadsheet wizardry to shorten the gap of working full-time, didn’t work. Really needed OMY.

I started before Osborne’s transformational 2014 SIPP changes so I had expected to buy an annuity with DC pension capital. This exposes you to sequence of returns risk along two axes. Only one could you mitigate through lifestyling your DC pension bond/equity mix. The other risk is what you get for your DC pension capital. In the financial repression years3 following the GFC it became very expensive to buy an annuity as annuity rates fell through the floor.

This is why DB pension providers offered incentives to either de-index or offload their liabilities by offering high CETV multiples for the annuities they offered, otherwise known as DB pensions. I’d feel sick now had I taken the unindexed higher start option, and that post was only written four years ago. My DB pension is predicated on average age of death 20 years after NRA, I would have taken a hit only a fifth into the average journey length!

So back to the story, a disorganised mustelid flings the key across the years to my future self. I took the chance of sweating another three years earnings. In general, dear reader, if you are faced with the choice of health or wealth, choose health. Like Time, you can’t buy it once it’s gone. I didn’t really have the option. If I made it, I had advantages that were only dimly visible at the time, some only in hindsight.

First off, I was at the peak of my earning power. Paying higher rate tax and several thousands in NI. The Firm offered salary sacrifice so I could get this into my hands by putting it into AVCs, which is a SIPP in all but name. Compound interest doesn’t help you retire early, earning more than you spend and saving hard does.

Salary Sacrifice can be transformational for FI/RE, but there’s a devastating catch. If you are a higher-rate taxpayer, you are probably a spendy sort of chap. I still remember the fellow at The Firm who, just before the GFC introduced me to how salary sacrifice works with pensions with the deathless phrase

“this opportunity is so good you’re mad if you’re working here past 45”.

It pulled the black tip of my mustelid tail because I was over 45.

A sleeping stoat
Don’t. Pull. That. Tail. You’ll end up with needle-sharp gnashers ripping your flesh

I had the last laugh, checking him out on LinkedIn just now. Why could I do what he couldn’t? I could live like a celibate monk in a brothel to get where I wanted to go. He tried it for a while, but his wife and kids didn’t like the change in lifestyle, losing the holidays in Italy, the nice clothes, days out. If you want to make easy money, do something hard.

LinkedIn says he’s still at The Firm. I walked out the gate the last time 12 years ago now. “you’re mad if you’re working here past 45”. Quite, thanks for the tip 😉 I wonder if I should go to his retirement do which ought to be up soon, a ghostly white sinuous presence to remind him of those heady days fifteen years ago when it all seemed so simple. Although the charge of insanity stung, it pencilled in the faint outline of an exit ramp on the wall, with a red square “in case of emergency break glass” box.

VWRL, post GFC

Second advantage is that while the GFC enshittified my job, it meant that VWRL (as a proxy for the stock market) did this afterwards, because contrary to the passivista mantra, valuation and timing do matter, it’s just extremely hard to use4. The result is not quite as terriff as (90-32)/32/11 years =17% lift p.a because: inflation making it more like(90-44)/44/11 = 9% p.a. Nobody knew that was going to happen at that time. They could have gone with their gut, for sure, and some people called it right. But it was a tough thing to actually do. Back in the day, people could seriously think that they could get away with investment income of 20 or 25 times their desired annual income, an implicit safe withdrawal rate of 4 to 5%. Nowadays TA sets it at 3%, over 30 times annual income. Valuation matters…

I got a bung from Covid. You weren’t meant to short that. Tax-free, thanks muchly. The ISA took a gut punch, though it came back and more in the following years, which vindicates Do Not F’ing Sell. Luck there too – I survived to watch this from downstream, because to be honest from what is coming out of the Covid inquiry it was much more about luck than judgement from the Bozza5 stick a hairdryer up your nose and ‘let the bodies pile high’ crew, I was old enough to be one of those bodies but lucky enough not to be.

I also got some win from Covid by the simple fact that you couldn’t buy many consumer doodads for a while. Oh, and there was money off restaurants for a while, which apparently came as a surprise to the Covid team. The joys of joined-up government and the hubris of the boy who would be King discovering that his claim I’m the Führer, the king didn’t stack up would be funny if it weren’t for the collateral damage. But sure, it saved on the costs of eating out.

Finally there were the advantages of a paid down house and a DB pension. The toughest part of doing the RE part of FI/RE is that you are going against the grain of the typical professional career life track, in particular if you want to retire before you are 55 you are into the gap where you have to save money out of taxed income, which is a howling headwind. Not having a mortgage is money you don’t have to earn and pay tax on, the counter-argument is can you not afford to have a big cheap mortgage?

My younger working self was poorer in those last three years of work than TA’s illustration of £14k p.a, because I had driven my salary down to nearly the national minimum wage, salary sacrificing the rest into the AVC. I think the full-time NMW was worth less than it is now in those days. I drank homebrew then, because I couldn’t afford decent wine on NMW 😉

So I admire TA’s straw man/alter ego. Sensible captain flicks the switch, and he has a good flight plan for age 100, job done sorted. It’s a better ride – a year after he detaches from the mother ship IRL, in the twisted aftermath of a global pandemic, TA can write this calm piece.. Chapeau that man. It took me two years to even think about trying to work out which way was up.

I was also poorer than TA’s model in the immediate post-work period. I was self-employed but in my entire post-work time I never earned more than 10% of my full-time salary at The Firm. The CAD work which was the last work I did had a better hourly rate than The Firm, but my post-work self was a idler. So I never put the time in, and those were hit and run one-offs anyway.

While I can say that my younger self lived within TA’s analysis in the early days, I don’t feel it stuck over time. I have 12 years of lived experience as a retiree, and I wonder if I have seen ZXSpectrum48k’s hedonic adaptation critique in action. Those numbers would feel tight now, you can probably keep the wolf from the door with 28k as a couple but maybe not live graciously. I’m not talking Rich Kids of London, 28k probably doesn’t even cover rent in the Great Wen, I believe the presumption for that figure is a paid-off house.

Unlike TA’s model, I observed a very notable net-worth increase over time since retiring. Some of that is inflation. I would need £140 today to buy what I could have bought for £100 on the day I retired. But that long bull run has been kind to me, my networth appreciated by a lot more than 1.5 times, even after buying more house6 a few years ago. Don’t know exactly how much, because I never recorded the value of the AVCs/SIPP in the early days.

In the time between deciding to go and actually retiring, there were days when it seemed a lost cause, I would not last long enough to build a strong enough base. There was a song somewhere in the 1990s, by a French woman, I think it was in a minor key, called disenchanted. It was of the time, and I only have O level schoolboy French, so most of my relation to the song was guesswork, together with tracking the tone colour of the singing, emotive inflection is not so hugely different in French. There was a refrain, to the general effect of wandering in the unclear waters of the future, awaiting the end, followed by a section which still speaks to me

“If I must fall from high
may my fall be slow”

The aim of the AVC was to buy as much of this as possible before the unknowable time when the flame fails under the load. May my fall be slow, indeed. That’s why there are no records of the monthly sal sac purchases, pretty much from the month after Monevator sent out this transmission, signalling the low-water mark of the GFC. That drew around the the tail-puller’s exit-ramp sketch with a Sharpie. The AVC was invested in 50:50 FTSE100:Global. I have no idea7 what that did for me, though I got a good few years of tax-free personal allowance income out of that after converting it to a SIPP. People like to pretend that investing is rational, but it isn’t. It’s as much an act of faith, and you needed faith to buy in those long years.

There’s much complexity in TA’s dynamic harvesting strategy. That’s complexity I just don’t have. Spend up to the pension. That’s enough for now.  Then GIA dividend income. The SP (taxed) will be another £8k after tax in a few years. If I need capex then burn some GIA, cash savings or later on from the ISA. Annuity income simplifies drawdown no end.

I think TA’s decumulation plan is sound, I wonder if it needs room to breathe as time goes by. At the moment my DB pension covers my spending, so the ISA is still in accumulation. I am still a few years off the State Pension. It would make sense to run down some of my GIA first, specifically because spouses can inherit (not be gifted) an ISA retaining the tax-free wrapper. The childed may need to look to SIPPs rather than ISAs because pensions are a form of trust, so outwith their estate, but this is not my area of expertise. As that poor devil of an IFA with his head in his hands about Boomer King Tuts said, most people in that situation would rather bitch to the Torygraph about the iniquity of inheritance tax than y’know, give it to their kids while they are still alive 😉 It’s rewarding to give people life changing amounts of money without let or hindrance and watch the results, if you choose character well.

I am not a passivista, though I think having built networth lets me say that passive investing is not the only fruit that is unwormy. I have shifted to a broader-based more asset-class balanced, and more passive equity allocation, because capital preservation is more important to me now. I am not my younger self trying to hit it out of the park.

Given typical FI/RE career paths, passive equity gains and the fact that FI/RE folk will have shorter working lives because they want to retire early, compound interest’s contribution is more delulu than solulu. Maybe that’s the point, a personal finance Pascal’s Wager where the null result jollies you into saving for a pension even if the compounding cake is a lie in practical efficacy for FI/RE aspirants. Once you are retired early, if you have some in hand, it works slowly and silently, I have more respect for its wonder as a retiree than as a worker bee.

Why afterwards? The numbers are a lot bigger. I fiddled with Monevator’s CI calculator. From a standing start8 £1000 compounding for 10 years gets to £1.5k, the same endpoint as £425 gets to after 30 years. I earned three times as much in real terms at the end of my working life than at the beginning. It was easier for me to save £1.5k at the end of my working life than put £425 aside 30 years before. The contrast is made bigger by salary sacrifice, not servicing a mortgage, and not having to buy first car, furniture and all the paraphernalia of a household’s life. I will also acknowledge some gratuitous and wasteful spaffage of my younger self, less of that could have made his life easier too.

Of waste and white goods

I have had four coffee machines since the 1990s. A Tefal basic model that was lo-tech enough I could switch it on in the morning before work with a timeswitch to apply power. DxGF cracked the carafe on that and it wasn’t economically worth replacing. Two Krups machines, with the fond idea if I bought the same machine then I could firstly hang on to the carafe and then swap parts if it failed, without jumping to the problem that the most failure prone parts are always the same. Finally a Delonghi machine, where the spec was that it be cheap enough and not dire trash. I had to fix the power on off press button with one scavenged from a failed paint sprayer, after a year and a bit. I wouldn’t really describe that as merchantable quality, say it gets pressed twice a day that’s about 1000 operations, it’s meant to last 200k ops if you get this sort of thing from a decent manufacturer.

Among its many failings the damn thing consumed 12W doing nothing to power the circuit board that allowed De Longhi to use a cheap crappy low voltage switch I had to replace rather than a real mains switch. That’s over 100kWh p.a. or about £31 p.a. at today’s power rates. Bastards. Saving money can cost you a fortune, wastefully writing off the machine’s capital cost every two years. For comparison, that’s a third of what it uses if it makes coffee using 1kW for an hour each day, which is an over-estimate of power drain.

So I was in the market for a new coffee machine. Easier for me because I don’t like espresso or anything that needs steam, preferring bog standard filter coffee. Yeah I know, I have no taste. It saves me from the sort of consumerism that Monevator indulged in, though I admire his chops in busting cheap rubbish out of his life earlier than me. His machine has six knobs on it and a pressure meter, as well as an onboard grinder. I specifically don’t want one with an onboard grinder because it adds complexity and failure modes. I have a Krups burr grinder for that. Monevator’s machine strikes fear into the Ermine fur because anything that heats or steams milk is a bitch to clean out, and I detest hot milk in coffee anyway. Monevator benchmarked spend for me at less than £500, ideally not something that consumes power while turned off and needs fixing in a year and a half, Delonghi you spivs.

I read this article in August. I felt that the anecdote about being a sales droid back in the day reduced likelihood of him being an AI content farm as so many review sites are now, so I carried on reading. Why should I spend more than £100 on a coffee machine? A filter coffee machine is a very simple thing. Usually there is a U shaped tube with the heating element under the hotplate, a plastic ball in the pipe from tank to the heater that stops the heated water reflowing down easily, and the steam drives the heated water up and over a siphon into the filter. Job done.

Looks like the there were two premium machines, one made by the same crew that made Monevator’s machine, Sage, and Technivorm, they are poles apart in design concept. I favoured the simplicity of the latter. There’s too much of a tendency to complicate things now, so marketing can differentiate price points.

Simple living. No apps.

This is a gratuitous rant. I reserve a special place in Hell for smart anything. Domestic appliances need a very good reason to connect to t’internet and spaff data to the world. Fine in the case of a computer, less good in the case of a TV, and absolutely no bloody way in the sort of thing you can only use in the house. As for something that listens to you – WTF? I get it how Alexa might be terrific as an assistive aid, and that time may well come but until then no I bloody well do not need to enable any microphone – at least in Orwell’s 1984 the Ministry of Truth installed the listening devices, where now you get to pay for it yourself?

Some spotty yoof from British Gas fitted a Hive system when they replaced the 40 year old boiler in my mother’s house some years ago, which was bonkers and gave her no end of grief, her requirements were basically an on and off switch, but you don’t get such simplicity on their contracts it seems. I put smart meters in the same category, there’s no need for Them to be able to switch You off remotely without having to look you in the eyes.

I am all for monitoring your power usage and use Efergy for that. It’s me that needs to know the microdetail. They don’t, other than every quarter 😉 Sure, I do get the concept of a smart grid, I just don’t really think it’s anywhere near ready, and how the heck are you going to black start that after a widespread internet/power outage?

Anything that requires an app is planned obsolescence because any fule kno that manufacturers have no interest in supporting old models once the new has come out, and apps are dependent on a lot of infrastructure that changes all the time as Android/iOS are updated, breaking old apps and perfectly serviceable kit with gay abandon because nobody keeps a phone for more than two years. The rule is simple. If it requires a smartphone, then it has a limited service life of less than five years, and will be spaffing your details and data exhaust to entities that are trying to make you spend more money. This is Not A Good Thing and I don’t sell myself for that sort of convenience.

I don’t think the Sage coffee machine connects to the internet. But it’s overcomplicated for what it does IMO. “Multiple presets & customisable brew settings; More control over the brew than any other filter coffee machine ” gives me a tyranny of choice feeling, I don’t need to think first thing in the morning exactly what temp, what bloom time etc etc, getting able to think is what coffee is there to help with 😉 The cold brew function made me laugh, too. I was expecting some fiendishly complicated panjandrum that extracts the coffee with cold water, but no. You do this overnight, it makes the coffee with hot water and the machine lets it cool down. Pretty much like you’d do with any scumbag machine with the EU mandated switch off after an hour, fire it up late at night and leave the bugger, eight hours later, cold brew 😉 It’s what my mother used to do in the 1970s when she wanted iced coffee, made using a manual filter funnel on the top of a jug. Duh.

The Dutch machine scored for simplicity. And the fact that you can source spare parts, there’s something good about something that has been the same for a while. We used to have a machine made by the Moccamaster brand of Technivorm at work, it was in service from about 1995, and the main failure mode was people cracking the jugs, so I had a good feeling about the company. A lot of coffee ran through that machine, it was still in service when I left, and it looks like the modern jug would still fit the machine, which is not bad for nearly 30 years after first going into service.

So I bought one from Amazon. Despite the homely video about it being hand made and checked the first one had a spall in the enamel of the hotplate, and I could see that rusting over time, so I sent it back and got a replacement, which was fine. The instructions did educate me not to use the carafe to fill the tank which is a subtlety I had never got in 40 years of using coffee machines – the reason why is potential for swarf left behind9 if the filter paper breaks and you don’t rinse it painstakingly, then it gets into the tank. So I retained the old carafe for that. Not combining the hotplate with the boiler allows the hotplate to run at a lower temperature which is good, though I use a glass thermos to decant the coffee into. You can get machines with insulated jugs but I don’t want my coffee to taste of steel.

the silver coffee flask the same as mine is the only thing Liz Truss got right in her short sojourn

My Thermos is a Tefal flask and it did not totally please my fur to find that it was the same as Liz Truss favoured. I spent less than half of Monevator on this project. And there’s only two things to set – the amount of coffee relative to the water, and to make with the power switch. Job done. Plus I have a cold brew function too, just not labelled as such 😉 However, the Sage does have a feature my working self would have missed, the timer function, I am out of luck with that. The power switch is a mini contactor and needs power applied to hold on. It does, however, not draw power when switched off, something that is becoming a rarity nowadays. It also makes better coffee and faster, mainly as a result of attention to detail and a larger bore heating element.

vampire power loads

Parasitic power is a general problem, because the cost of a switch to control mains power is always going to be more than the cost of something sending a signal. This adds up in the manufacture of consumer goods, and the EU tried to do something about standby power. Obviously we are Great British Real Men and don’t putz about with such milquetoast flummery because We Are Macho and Hard. However, as the misbegotten UKCA project to Take Back Control of the CE mark found out, no manufacturer produces products specifically for the UK, and we had to wind our necks in and climb down about UK specific marking.

The government intends to introduce legislation to extend recognition of goods that meet EU requirements, including the CE marking, indefinitely, beyond 31 December 2024 for many products. This will mean that certain goods that meet EU requirements can be placed on the GB market.

Otherwise among the multifarious economic benefits of Brexit would be the fact that consumer goods would cost more in the UK to meet a separate compliance regime for a small outpost of what was the EU, we’re just not all that. Been a very long time since half the map was pink, Brexitards. Sic transit gloria mundi

A large English speaking region which is big enough for products made specifically for it shows the advantage. Go to any hotel room in America and try and use a piece of white goods and it’s much easier, because firms make them for this monolithic monoglot market with a slightly deviant mains power spec unlike much of the rest of the world. As a result the control functions are marked in English (well, American) and you can immediately understand what they do, whereas for the last 30 years in the UK and EU they have weird hieroglyphics you have to squint at to decipher the possible function, so one front panel can serve a polyglot EU region. There’s just nothing special enough about the UK market to justify the effort, so the UKCA initiative died a death. This article from the BSI is wrong because it doesn’t acknowledge the defeat of UKCA’s exclusivity though it’s otherwise a good description of the various markings.

I was lulled into a false sense of security by the EU directive when I bought my TV, because the EU directives states standby power should be 1W or less. I can’t get excited about chasing vampire loads of 1W, that’s 9kWh a year which is £2.37 p.a. I did not clock the difference between EU directive standby and network standby. You have to go though a shitload of menus to set the TV into standby, the default is network standby, which consumes 17W, where I had assumed 1W. You hardly ever see switches on wall sockets in other countries but they do help you bust the ass of wasteful vampire drains like that TV or the Delonghi coffee machine using 12W 24/7 to see if you have switched it on yet…

much commonality under the hood

I was puzzled to see that the UK’s Competition and Markets Authority was giving the merger of two domestic goods brands side-eye. Exactly how powerful does Brexit Blighty think it is? We’ve seen this movie before with the MSFT Activision thing, the CMA sez no, but once the US FTC failed to put the kibosh on it then it’s oh, well that’s OK then.

All this shit is made in China, anyway, and to a large extent it’s all the same under the hood. The brand doesn’t help you at all with finding out what’s inside. I was treated to this godawful racket from our five year old dishwasher, and ended up grubbing about in a lousy underbelly of crap service and chancers on the make.

The dishwasher innards were a doddle to get at. I removed four screws, none of which I needed to. I could have got access to the faulty item with just my bare hands and a spudger. In times gone by you could get service manuals for things, but people don’t bother with that, there’s no demand, we don’t fix things now.

It also reminded me that plumbing is a young person’s game, because you have to fold yourself up in knots to get into tight corners.

My first reaction to the noise was to think good that there wasn’t water all over the place, second, look at what’s available, replacement was about £300. If that was it then I’d have a new dishwasher and a lot less frustration at dealing with incompetent chancers, but when I priced up actually getting this, I discovered that disposal was going to be £75, I’m not short of £75, but the thought just pissed me right off. I was OK with paying £25 for install, and a tenner for delivery, but paying a quarter of the capital cost on enviro-what’sittery, no, bollocks to that.

I have an alligator saw, and I’m not afraid to use it. I could take the pieces to the tip myself. There might even be some interesting parts to salvage. There’s a cottage industry of people selling used parts on ebay, but life is too short for that sort of side hustle for me. Indeedably summed it up well, old gits should stuff the hustle trap.

Less sensible when that time is reinvested in working. To earn more money. To buy more time. The hustle trap. Not living life, but using work as an excuse to hide the absence of a rich fulfilling life.

My younger self called that well with matched betting. But a few relays and triacs for the junkbox, maybe? I did know I was not quite doing the living well thing here, I could afford the 75 sods, it was the thought of being ripped off that jarred. There was a study that people react badly to being suckered, and paying good money to get rid of junk was that suckering for me. Indeedably again

Spend what it costs to be comfortable. […] Self-sacrifice and denial are not the way. They do explain why frugalistas and budgeteers are a miserable breed. Forgetting that money is an enabler, not the goal.

Ouch. I was a frugalista, though I note that compared with the people coming out of the GFC, the frugalistas have been run out of town, the FI/RE space has shifted towards Rich Kids of London, because RE had become the province of the wealthy. Who’d a thunk it, eh?

Or these frugalistas all discovered Indeedably’s frugalista misery and either went back to work or made their money on the back of the bull run. Grubbing about with the dishwasher wasn’t about saving money, it was about saving having the piss taken. Since I was going to have the aggravation of taking this out, I figured I may as well inquire as to what is making this earache.

Fault-finding white goods is tiresome, at least this was an honest and obvious fault, not one that comes and goes, intermittent faults are a bastard, how d’you know they are gone? I did consider paying someone to look at this, but figured I am going to eat a cost of at least £100 to get someone out, and then I will still have a five-year old machine which is probably closer to end of life than beginning. I didn’t really fancy that. The conundrum is summed up by this wag on ukwhitegoods

And to be equally honest, if you have managed to get 4 years out of a low end Chinese made dishwasher you are already quids in, don’t waste any serious money on it.

There are only really two sources of motive force in a dishwasher, the main circulation pump that also spins the spray arms by the reaction of the spray, and the drain pump. It’s possible to work out which was the problem by listening and observing the outfall and applying a bit of common sense. On pulling the circulation pump motor the problem was immediately apparent.

Look Ma, no screw required. Hence the integral shroud covering the vanes is loose and rattling about elsewhere. As the fellow said, after 4 years with a Chinese dishwasher you are in extra time. For the want of a M4x8 screw the machine was scrappable

The screw holding the impeller had gone AWOL/was never present in the first place, the plastic impeller loosened on the shaft and rubbed against the 2kW heating element and came apart, and the loose part rubbed against the vanes. Since I had already pulled the motor I clamped it to a bench and powered it up, with the time honoured mains plug to croc clips10 via a 100W incandescent bulb, it ran up and sounded fine. It appears this Chinese motor is used in all sorts of white goods, in my case it was the circulation pump, but it’s used in washing machines too. If you google the part number, Welling YXW50-E2 YXWN-50-2-2-2 you can buy a replacement for anything from £160 a a genuine Gorenje (who?) part from gorenje-spares, the same thing Hoover branded for £120 from partmaster and £70 from buyspares. It’s exactly the same part – the brand is irrelevant. Ebay has a few at a slightly lower range of prices. There’s a small industry of companies creating apparently branded webshops to sell punters spare parts at inflated prices. Sure, Gorenje and Hoover and everyone else use the same generic Welling Chinese motor, so strictly speaking yes all are a genuine replacement, it’s just the genuine replacement is identical for many other brands so the cheapest is fine!

Presumably your real white goods service wallahs buy their parts from some trade place that pays Google not to appear in their listings, all I know is that if you’re paying £70+VAT in parts to fix a £300 appliance there’s no margin in the job for the repair guy to pay his rent. Maybe he has a warehouse full of old machines like you used to get car scrap dealers where you could wander up with a bag of tools and ask to pull a used part like an alternator or lamp housing in exchange for some cash.

I was surprised to see how little there was in a dishwasher. In particular I was amazed to see there was so little water in it at any one time. This does get changed out a few times, but I guess it wouldn’t fill a washing up bowl.

Finding the fault was relatively easy. The plastic component was a tenner from Partmaster, where I went badly wrong was paying £7.50 for next working day delivery. I ordered it on a Thursday and expected to get on with the job Friday.

If the answer is DPD, the question is wrong

There’s nothing that DPD can’t foul up royally. They gave a delivery slot. I was there, and saw the SMS message sorry we missed you come it. I pulled the CCTV – the delivery droid never even bothered to come on site. Or indeed put the card through the door, the lying sack of shit. Presumably DPD incentivise their drivers by time, and that’s what you get. A weekend of frustration trying to get them to do the job via text chat resulted in going to the post office to pick up a package for someone else, that they had smashed up. A couple of days later they managed to deliver the right part.

Once I had the part it was reasonably easy to fit the impeller, using A2 stainless steel hardware to keep the damn thing where it’s meant to be. I haven’t chalked this one up as a definite win yet because the guts have been manhandled so although it’s run a few tens of cycles without the seal between the pump and the bell housing leaking it’s still up for grabs. Everybody seems to recommend washing up liquid to lubricate the big 15cm O ring to refit the motor to the bell housing but I had to use vaseline in the end, for some reason washing up liquid didn’t work for me. I am open to the idea this may be incompetence on my part 😉

Indeedably would not approve. It was a waste of my time, but more importantly nervous energy and aggravation. It was the shyster companies and the gig economy lowlife that were the problem. An increasing issue in the modern world – trying to get anything sorted in the welter of online obfuscation and cheap shit than you can’t avoid. Intentional living fail but I wasn’t to know that ahead of time. The problem here was not the work. It was that so much of it made me angry at wankers wasting my time and effort, this thing was in pieces for far longer than it needed to be if firms did what they were paid to do.

On the upside, I have saved some money and the feeling of being ripped off.

Of spending well

Having acknowledged that issue of hedonic adaptation that ZXSpectrum picked out as a hazard, I wondered if indeedably also has some wisdom to share. It is possible that passing through several years of being a frugalista reset something, and while I am getting more decadent maybe I should do more. The problem is that many things that people seem to highly value and spend money on I just don’t. In particular I lean towards things where I learn something or change something, though being changed is also good. They don’t have to be earth-shattering or world-changing, just interesting. But I carry echoes of my earlier past.

I should throw out all the scavenged chips in my component drawers. I am not the spotty teenager pulling junked TVs out of skips to scavenge parts any more because I had no money, I am rich enough to buy my parts from ISO9001 distributors. I recently built a Geiger counter power supply using a chip my first company had thrown out, they had a power supply that would only work with some 555 timer ICs because the design was marginal. This ratty item was duff and wasted my time, made me doubt my competence and delayed me getting this thing out in the field to do the job it was designed for, it’s a bit too cold to camp out and survey with it now. It was obviously the last one in the drawer because it looked recovered, a new part fixed the problem immediately.

In another example I replaced a wooden fence post recently. It’s a general pain in the arse and if I could find someone reliable to do the job I’d be happy to pay for someone to do the work. It’s hard to find services that are reliable or competent, however. The DPD example shows that paying more doesn’t necessarily mean getting better. Elizabeth Ruppel Shell clocked this problem in Cheap over ten years ago and the problem has only got worse since then as scale has increased, and the lifecycle of companies has shortened. There’s some advantage to buying from what the Americans call mom and pop small firms and paying more, but only if they have been around long enough to have a reputation, and capitalism is slowly crushing small fry out of the market. It’s tough enough qualifying quality in goods, trying to do that in services is even harder.

A service that I may need more of in future is the NHS. In my view the cause of the current version is lost, for a myriad of different reasons. Demographics and the culpable incompetence of the Tories are only two of them, but arguably the concept is misbegotten for an ageing world.

I would be perfectly happy with a European-style insurance model. I was unable to parse this Guardian article for useful information in part because I can’t qualify my requirements. I don’t have any health issues that I know about. I can afford a few grand for one off operations, which seems the way this is going, you don’t need insurance for that. The trouble is that the wreckage of the dream sits across the space. For instance, after the paddleboarding experience I had the worst gutrot I have ever had, though as it happened it passed after three days. It probably is true that you get less resilient to shit in the water as you get older, though I observe that if sort of thing poleaxed a 22-year old perhaps I don’t need to feel too bad. The trouble is you can’t get hold of a doctor, due to the stupid way they shed load by making people queue on the phone in the morning at 8am. If you feel that rotten you can’t face that sort of fun and games. The NHS seems to be bifurcating into emergency or nothing. I don’t have an answer to that.

There are non financial elements of health insurance. Don’t eat anything your great grandmother wouldn’t recognize11, don’t drink too much, avoid stress, particularly as you get older. I have walked a thousand miles so far this year and climbed some hills. There’s always some hard case that does HIIT and cycles up Ben Nevis, but it appears the bar isn’t that high on making a difference.

The gradually accumulating networth may tell me I am underspending, but on the other hand I have lived intentionally and given a reasonable amount away. It is more important to know what enough is like than to balance the streams exactly, and after all, we are still at the tail end of a long bull run post GFC. An accumulation may simply be the result of that, the tide will turn in its own time. One of the things I took away from TA’s article was that drawdown is likely to be tidal, it will have its ebb and flow. Just like life, really 😉

“If I must fall from high | may my fall be slow”

That is the art of prevailing against greater forces, to fall back, and fall back, play for time, and sometimes, often indeed, if you can do it well, the low-water mark comes, and then a reversal. The art of living is to go with those cyclical forces, rather than fight them, something that’s hard for a Western worldview with its teleological narrative of progress.

The reversal will come, ‘ere eight hours come to pass water will fill the foreground

Compared to the horrible troubles many are having, it’s a rather gentle sort of problem to have, and I am grateful for my good fortune.


  1. Hopefully Monevator will not have to kill me for letting the cat out of the paywalled bag with that quote ;) 
  2. I don’t know of anyone personally who got to 100 
  3. Financial repression is not over, because the damage done by the GFC was never repaired, but it will probably take a different form than ZIRP for a while 
  4. It’s hard to use valuation because the cycles of swelling and falling valuation are slow, they are independent of what you do and show supreme indifference to your aims/desires. There’s a degree of market-wide synchronisation so you can’t wait out inactivity getting your kicks in another sector of the market. It requires long stretches of extreme inaction, and the latency and feedback cycles are long. I find it hard to imagine something better designed to piss humans right off. 
  5. Fuckwittery of that degree really does make you wonder about the quality of public schooling – Bozza went to Eton FFS, the creme de la creme. The Force is not strong in this one. There is some evidence that colder nasal passages reduces the efficiency of the immune response in the upper respiratory tract very rapidly with lower temperature, but Bozza’s brain fart is in the drinking bleach class of cod remedies. 
  6. a reckoning that discards housing in net worth shows spending on houses as a destruction of capital, that was a consumer purchase in Quicken, like a car or a TV set, it doesn’t persist. I don’t trust the ‘asset class’ even if it be religion for everyone else. 
  7. I can place a boundary condition on it by what it was worth when it did come onto my books converted into a SIPP. 
  8. to replicate use this and  clear the extra added every year and set initial lump sum to £1000 and time 10 years, and the other case initial lump £425 and time 30 years. Why 30? Because the sort of people that retire early don’t usually start straight from school at 16, if you leave university at 21 then after 30 years you are 51, which is retiring early. Work for 40 years and you’re 61, which is past retirement age at The Firm. I sort of struggle to regard 61 as early retirement, though culture and practice may change this over time 
  9. It had always puzzled me how coffee grounds got in the tank of the De Longhi machine, I put it down to a design fault spilling over from the filter. Now I know. I was the design fault, dozy berk that I am… 
  10. obvs don’t do this at home 😉 I am amazed they are still allowed to sell this sort of thing, I thought they had gone out with cotton-covered plaited mains cords and the bayonet plugs you grandmother used to plug the iron into the ceiling lamp socket. 
  11. From Michael Pollan, it’s an exhortation to avoid processed foods. It’s surprisingly hard to do in a city on indeed on the road generally. I’m not hard line about it, you’re a miserable bugger if you don’t ever eat ice cream or fish and chips, just try and make ’em decent ice-cream and fish and chips, and once every other month rather than every day ;) 

76 thoughts on “Decadence, drawdown and deceptive sales”

  1. Thank you, Ermine.
    Another interesting read (and rant in places 🙂 ). Geiger counter? Thought you were at some remove from Hinckley Point. The Moccamaster looks and sounds like a very reliable bet. But I think I’ll stick to my £5 cafetière: one fewer item to go wrong.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I love the simplicity of a stove-top espresso. Use mine everyday. Bialetti is the defacto standard. Nothing to go wrong, and a cinch to clean compared to a cafetierre. I had to get a steel one to replace the original alloy when I swapped gas to induction hob. Was dubious at the time of switching from gas which I’d convinced myself was the ‘gold standard’ of cooking but you would have to prise the induction out of my cold dead hands now. They are awesome – nothing like an electric hob of old.

      Having had a ‘proper’ espresso maker (i.e. pressurised etc.) in the past I don’t really think its any better. Hell of a lot of cost and complexity for (in my mind) very marginal, if any, gain. The ritual of the stovetop becomes a staple of the morning routine!

      Liked by 1 person

      1. > They are awesome – nothing like an electric hob of old.

        I second that. OTOH the rearing dragon noise of Mrs Ermine’s steel stovetop gizmo scares the hell out of me, though it works for her. And the swarf doesn’t go down the sink, which is good.

        But the intensity and acidity of the result, heck. It made my eyes bulge when I tired it – never again, wuss that I am 😉

        Like

      2. I‘ve given up on electric filter machines. If the carafe doesn’t crack, the coffee starts spilling out all over the place, everywhere other than into the carafe! For filtering coffee with an apparatus that behaves itself, I like one of these: https://www.bodum.com/gb/en/coffee/pour-over-coffee-drippers. Just need to boil your water in a standard kettle, and better than a coffee press when it comes to tapping out the used ground.

        Liked by 1 person

    2. It’s for geology rather than disaster preparedness 😉 +1 on the simplicity of the cafetiere, I am a little bit too soft for the intensity of the result. And offing the swarf without bunging up the sink is seems an issue – at work facilities management often had to tackle that.

      Like

      1. haha – yesterday in a rush leaving work i deposited the contents of a cafetierre down the sink. I felt bad, but not bad enough not to do it 😉

        Liked by 1 person

  2. ‘what about people with kids’?

    that’s relatively easy to answer, take the target income value, then double it, double it again, add a large random number and then finally double it again. This should give a conservative estimate of the income required.

    You probably did the right thing mate and kept it largely in your trousers.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. How are people to give their money to their children and still be confident of being able to afford their own “Care” in old age? In principle it’s easy: they’d buy insurance. In practice every firm that has tried to sell Care insurance has beaten a retreat: they can’t find a way of making a living from it.

    As for the woes of retiring on a DC pension: yep, I’m glad we’ve got DB pensions. On the other hand both the biggest are with the same pension scheme which is notoriously badly run. If it enters the PPF we’ll lose virtually all our inflation-protection. So our joy is not unabated.

    Meanwhile we shall shortly have to pay for a new roof. Still, the car isn’t 20 yet so we might get a few more years out of it.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. > How are people to give their money to their children and still be confident of being able to afford their own “Care” in old age?

      It’s all about what you value in life. Parents say their kids are the most important thing in their lives, but that IFA gives the lie to that. Also the most important time in the lifecycle for this to make the biggest difference is when the children are in their 30s to 40s

      I don’t know why the infinite sink of care has risen in the last 10-20 years, perhaps it’s another aspect of the public realm that has been shunted into individual provision in the same way health is going. Those of a John Galt bent should approve. The commenter on monevator’s thread sums it up well

      A lot of debate about care costs feels like working for a gold plated coffin. Statistically few people are going to need extended care for many years

      I know people who have worked in a care home. There aren’t many long stayers among the residents.

      Like

      1. My wife has seen quite enough of care homes to be certain that neither of us is going to go into one. If needed it’ll be care at home which is awfully expensive.

        “I don’t know why the infinite sink of care has risen in the last 10-20 years” I don’t think it has. There’s a brouhaha raised by middle-aged people who think the cost of care will deny them “their” inheritances.

        “Statistically few …”: so he’ll have told his parents to hand over the moolah now and then they can spend years worrying about the possibility of being unable to pay for care. Great. ‘Don’t worry, Mum, there’s a less than x% chance that one of you will … Meantime we can send you postcards from our expensive holidays.”

        Liked by 1 person

      2. >I know people who have worked in a care home. There aren’t many long stayers among the residents.

        3.9 years for men, 5.3 years for women.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Hmm, I hope that when I’m ready to go, China will already be doing cheap online euthanasia pills (Fentanyl +, XXL ?) because the future looks rockier than ever in my lifetime and nursing homes are the departure lounge of life, sitting there anaesthetised, just waiting to die, little quality of life or point in hanging around longer

        Ideally though, I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car at the end

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Sorry just have to reply to the @dearmie post above as it was my original gold plated coffin post on Monevator.

        I was talking from my perspective about providing for my own future care. If I listen to the doommongers I could ensure I have enough surplus in my spend down to pay for lets say 10 years of care at £100k per year.

        Which might even with the gift of compounding see me working for say another 5 years past my otherwise retirement date to build that surplus. Or I could say feck it like the majority of the population who are not really thinking about reducing the burden on the state in their dotage and what I happen to have left will have to do.

        Nothing to do with greedily grabbing money off parents leaving them in the gutter.

        Like

    2. My sister and I covered the care home fees for our father (he had at-home care, still fell over and cracked his skull). Your wife may be adamant you won’t be going in one but easy to say it than guarantee it for the future. He passed on what he could when he was alive, we reciprocated. It was unspoken but was the right thing to do.

      I guess you have to consider the character of your children, a point the Ermine has made multiple times. Mercenaries are mercenaries. Decent people do the decent thing.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. Bro, I appreciate the effort you take to post your thoughts/insights etc. But you probably have the most unclear style of writing I have ever read on a finance blog. Which is a shame as you obviously know your stuff.

    Like

    1. Well I have been following the old Mustelid for a long long time and you sort of get used to the language and where he is going with the themes. It is worth it and he gives an interesting (slightly grumpy) take on the world. I’ve even tried to follow the Jungian philosophy. I think it helps that I am a crotchety early retired Physics teacher…. Please keep going Mr. Ermine sir.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. We love the rambling top rants from our Ermine. Can’t follow it mostly but even so, I learn more about electronicy things and whatnot than I ever managed to get my head round in school.

      Like

  5. Nice post that covers a lot of ground and themes.
    A couple of Q’s if I may

    > Unlike TA’s model, I observed a very notable net-worth increase over time since retiring. Some of that is inflation…

    IMO there are two distinct phases since you retired, specifically: before and after taking your DB pension. In previous chatter we have often referred to the first phase as “the Gap”. I suspect most of your real net worth (NW) gains occurred after taking your DB pension. Is that broadly correct?

    And if so, how do you see your NW developing over the coming years as:
    > At the moment my DB pension covers my spending

    Like

    1. > Is that broadly correct?

      Yes. Not that surprising though. Long version –

      I started my DB pension a teeny bit early in late 2019. All of a sudden I got enough to live on, my entire ISA could go titsup and I could still eat lobster. The SP top-up will probably buy me out of the inflation erosion on that. All of a sudden my risk tolerance, already qualified as batshit crazy, gets dialled up to 11. I got clearance to land, final approach OK.

      I then get windfalls. There’s an existential incoming threat, and I think to myself game theory sez my Winter 2020 may hold no Spring. Mrs Ermine is likely to survive, the age difference is in her favour. That concentrates the mind. So after some stupid muppetry I short the ISA as it appears the world is ending. Then I short more of it. Then it starts to rocket up late in the year, so I give up a fair bit of the shorting win and slam into reverse and pull the entire short, take the win (Tax-free, HMRC you generous people). And the ISA comes steaming back up over the next couple of years. I can’t say I lived the spirit of Do Not Fucking Sell, and indeed I cleared out some abject trash in my ISA and just bought VWRL:gold about 50:50. But honestly, look at that chart of VWRL and you have to squint to see Covid, TA was right to stand his ground. Chapeau that man… I am still jealous that he gets to write a cool calm collected one year review in the middle of a global pandemic and I was just trying to peel away the twisted wreckage two years in and asking myself “which way’s up round here”. Dunno where TA gets his chill pills but I want some 😉

      I give away half the windfall. I am old, it was never mine, easy come, easy go, and I see a shit situation transformed for folk I care about, and I think ‘ermine, you used your skills OK then’. I will probably live another seven years, indeed less now as the clock has started running. I am no King Tut, unlike all those middle class parents/grandparents. Sure, dearieme may be right, I may need care at the end of my life, and I may be short that wedge, but 1) it was never mine and 2) fuck it, you cannae take it with ye. Life is for living, not for hoarding. You’re a long time dead.

      When my race is run, hopefully in a couple decades from now, I can look back and think I was a portal for grace. It was all luck, and you shouldn’t hoard luck, it must flow. I didn’t need it. I have been the beneficiary of non-financial grace in the past, it was time to pay it forward, to unwrite the Moving Finger – it cannot be done through force or through right, but it can be done through grace. I was lucky enough to be able to take chances. And collect. I am not under the impression I am a brilliant investor. I am no bloody good at sector selection. BTDT. Monevator may have that edge, I believed I could have it, but bitter experience has shown I don’t. Jury’s out on timing 😉 I read Monevator’s stuff for Mavens and think to myself this is way above my pay grade. Though I have been able to leverage his bat-signals. I expect a profit on my £80. I’m not gonna bitch if not though!

      I survived Covid – luck again. If I must fall, may the fall be slow. I did not expect to hear one of the shattered engines of my old career restart – I expected my NW to follow TA’s model and fall back and fall back. It amazed me when I saw my NW rise by more than my max gross annual salary. In a week. The Torygraph and the wingnuts tell me I am deadweight, the gammon Mel Stride tells me I should get on my bike and deliver pizza. Of course, you look at that VWRL chart, and in it comes the ghostly promise in the wind of a 50% suckout, because the trees do not grow into the sky.. So what – I have enough. I haven’t got Peter Thiel enough to survive a war of all against all, but I don’t want to live in that sort of world anyway, I wouldn’t want to be a wanker like Peter Thiel or Elon Musk if you paid me, so I will take my chance. I see compounding work – after I retired 😉 In the trash science fiction of my youth, the restarted engine is not the Saturn 5 of my human capital, it is the faint ion drive of compounding, the ancient sunlight of my younger self, parlayed across time by the burned out husk. A weak hand, played well.

      So the assets that I paid out slowly across th Gap can now grow, because they are now unloaded. I never sold from the ISA, so I am largely tax-sheltered, though the windfall remnants are stashed in a GIA of a large proportion of the ISA. I am OK to pay tax on it, easy come, easy go, though of course I will pay as little as I can.

      I could spend more. I could go on cruises and travel, I could almost get away from cattle class and fly First – I only do it every couple years BRSPhoenix 6k return, I can do that, £700 cattle – so what. But I want to change things, or be changed or understand, I don’t just want to be a tourist and consume. I am with the first part of Thoreau’s “I wanted to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life”. If perhaps not the spartan rest of it. The limiting factor is me, and the time I have left.

      I left work in 2012 with a very weak hand – TA’s decomposition very clearly shows it was not enough, arguably ridiculously short. TA control to ermine – you are not cleared to take off, you have insufficent power to clear the runway from IDL, never mind reach Shannon control. Ermine to TA Idlewild control – fuck it, if not now, never. I played that weak hand serviceably, gifted by grace, luck and kindness. It wasn’t skill, and I am the older self that is the custodian of the key that my younger self flung forward, the reverse of Monevator’s doctrine. I have finally honoured my younger self’s desperate gift by doubling his money and injecting cash at turning points in other people’s lives.

      So yeah. Redpill’s right. I waffle far too much, but sod it. I am ermine, I am not AI, and I am prepared to stand it my own light and darkness. Life is to be lived, to stand for my values. There’s much shit going down in the world. I wish I were beautiful soul enough to change that. I was in Bristol today, and a saw a demo with a bunch of young’uns chanting about an injustice that I recall was an issue in my student days. My generation never fixed that, and I felt cynical and hard-bitten, but loved their energy, and belief they could change things. I lifted where I stand – coffee (tea in your case) for what you can change red wine for what you can’t.

      tl;dr life is about values, not money. But you must get old to pick that signal up 😉

      Like

      1. Thanks for the reply; and IMO you can waffle all you like.

        > The limiting factor is me, and the time I have left.
        Says it all really!

        OOI, looking back on your PF journey since c. 2009 [to date] would you change anything?

        Lastly, this link may be of some interest:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9senchant%C3%A9e#:~:text=%22D%C3%A9senchant%C3%A9e%22%20(pronounced%20%5Bdez%C9%91%CC%83%CA%83%C9%91%CC%83te,French%20singer-songwriter%20Myl%C3%A8ne%20Farmer
        I don’t suppose that this is the mysterious favourite female singer?

        Liked by 1 person

      2. > would you change anything?

        Yeah. I’d go balls-deep in VWRL and sod it with the rest. TA is right, Do Not Fucking Sell be much of the win. But then my capricious mustelid tail wouldn’t have shorted Covid, so fuck it, je ne regrette rien. I would have hoarded stuff for me. It strengthened the mustelid pelt to pass it on. You can be a passive pussy or an active Catherine wheel, ’tis the luck of the draw. I was lucky. I really. really want to say that I was genius hothanded dude, but no. I was lucky. It’s OK to play a weak hand well.

        Yeah, Mylene Farmer’s song bought me time, for all I know she bought me years, that time ‘twixt knowing that the fall was written in the stars and the final leaving do was long. I was fortunate that the remnants of my mental health did not fail in service.

        My inspiratrix is British, and it was a different precursor to the end of my career, because the fail was written early on. I lay drifting between the light and the dark in a Knightsbridge bedsit in the 1980s, she restarted the failed engines. But it’s all slushy and doesn’t amount to ‘owt nowadays. I have just spun it, it is cheesy 😉 But delightful and gorgeous, so sod it.

        Like

      3. Ta for the WP link, I never knew the background of Désenchantée. Amazon will sell me the book referenced for 300 sods!!! In some ways the book sounds like classic adolescent existential shite, which is perfectly tuned to echo in the middle aged Second Turning that Carl Jung called so well – if refused it pollutes the lifestream afterwards.

        Though I have to say the AMZN commenter summed it up well 😉

        It’s good, but what you have to ask yourself is how came Emil Cioran lived to be 84?

        I’m also surprised at MF’s age, I thought it was an anthem for GenX!

        Like

      4. Interesting reply, thanks.
        I suspect the presence of your DB income actually allowed you to execute the shorting?

        > Spend up to the pension. That’s enough …
        You are far from alone in imposing such a constraint (in the US at least), see e.g. https://www.aspeninstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/ebri_ib_447_assetpreservation-3apr18.pdf
        And, there are enough clues above to suggest that this spending constraint [your DB pension] is somewhat of a step up from your typical annual spend across the Gap?

        Banarjee has also recently written another paper that explores, amongst other things, the volatility of retiree spending, see: https://www.troweprice.com/content/dam/retirement-plan-services/pdfs/insights/research-findings/planning-for-spending-volatility-in-retirement/Planning_for_Spending_Volatility_Insights.pdf
        Also worth noting in this paper he still asserts that the general [real] spending trend for [US] retirees is a gentle decline and thus disagrees with the, IMO iffy/dodgy, recent IFS paper on that subject. I suspect their are some mistakes/errors in their regression calculations but they do not provide enough info for me to be sure.

        Liked by 1 person

      5. > I suspect the presence of your DB income actually allowed you to execute the shorting?

        Inasmuch as it stiffened the spine, yes. And yes, it’s more than the spend during the Gap. My spending did increase across the Gap however. And I bought more house towards the end of the gap, which was a serious gratuitous consumer spend. As I drew nearer to the DB pension the risk of failure of the investment income dropped.

        I could see that care costs would be one reason for the IFS spending lift at the end – the golden coffin 😉 This seems to be much more of an issue in people’s minds nowadays. My recollections as a child were that people tended to just drop dead, usually of heart attacks, there wasn’t the extended fade away that concerns so many now. I don’t know if this is due to changes in healthcare, or of lifestyle. Or perhaps class, because I grew up in a working class part of London, perhaps the better off ended their days in care rather than on the living room floor. If the aggregate doesn’t show an uptick towards the end as per T Rowe this supports a low likelihood of ending up in care, it’s not enough to shift the needle on the spending dial in aggregate.

        > Although health‑related costs are typically the top concern when it comes to retirement expenses, data show that housing is both the largest contributor to spending volatility and, by far, the largest spending category before and throughout retirement.

        Stands to reason housing is the largest spending category (presumably the opportunity cost of capital for a mortgage-free homeowner) but why it’s a large part of volatility puzzles me

        Like

      6. > Stands to reason housing is the largest spending category (presumably the opportunity cost of capital for a mortgage-free homeowner) but why it’s a large part of volatility puzzles me

        Page 5 of the report lists the items covered under the “Home” category. I was also a bit puzzled by the volatility of “Home”. I guess major repairs (such as a new roof (mentioned above IIRC) that are expensive and not, hopefully, annually recurring) might be part of the explanation. Also, second or even third, etc home ownership might be playing a part too. Spending on additional homes, however, should not IMO be considered as nondiscretionary/essential spend. This highlights the weakness of using categories to determine what expenditure type is essential. As he says elsewhere in the report “Our findings draw attention to the personal nature of spending”. I believe a better approach is to assume there is some split into essentials & discretionary spending within each category. And this probably varies from year to year too.

        Click to access DCIIA-RRC_RightSizing_091020.pdf

        provides some further info on [US] retiree spending and how it might relate to the means available to fund said retirement. In the jargon of this paper you clearly have a funded ratio of greater than one.

        Like

      7. PS: the DCIIA paper considers a relatively small number of households (425) over ten years and the households must claim Social Security retirement benefits during the period available. The survey claims to have around 20,000 participants.

        Like

      8. > Page 5 of the report lists the items covered under the “Home” category. I was also a bit puzzled by the volatility of “Home”.

        It’s possibly a weird gotcha. They list

        > Mortgage, rent, utilities, homeowners’ or renters’ insurance, property taxes, home repairs and maintenance,
        housekeeping supplies, household furnishings and small equipment, dry cleaning and laundry services, home
        cleaning services, and supplies and services for gardening and yard.

        Knock out the first two for the sort of retirees that employ financial advisers (who appear to be the target readership) And don’tcha just love the veep’s job title “Retirement Thought Leadership” FFS…

        Anyway, these non-early retirees should have a paid off house, and there’s no counterbalancing cost of capital line there, then it’s possible that repairs, upgrades etc could be a large source of variability. Set against that is the observation that elderly folk tend to let their houses go on the principle the issues aren’t going to catch up with them. When you look for a house, the fixer-uppers are the ones some old biddy has been in for the last 30 years 😉

        There are other weird bits in that report. Take fig 3. Are we really expected to believe that household spending only varies from ~17k to $27k across the spectrum? I would infer those with 100% investable assets are at the richer end of the spectrum. I find the concept that rich households spend less than twice poorer households a little bit hard to believe.

        I am an exception to this in the second paper

        > Thirdly, spending declined in real terms over the first 10 years of retirement

        But it’s dangerous to apply these generalisations to early retirees, they are predicated on a retirement starting at 65 – I believe the ‘early retirement’ in the title of the second paper to mean the first 10 years of probably a 20 year total, though I’m open to correction. Early retirees will have a depressed pre-retirement spending, this is how they get to retire early. And they will be younger, so their capital has to fund more healthy life years.

        Like

      9. I believe you are correct that none of these papers examine early retirement in the FIRE sense; instead they examine US datasets from around and after conventional retirement ages. I also believe all the papers use selected subsets from the same survey data; the third paper uses IMO a rather small sample.

        IMO, taken together the key points the papers strive to make are:
        a) constraining retirement spend to available pension-like income is not uncommon;
        b) there is volatility in retirement spending, but the general trend* is a gentle decline in spend over time;
        c) few households (<20% of a small sample) reach retirement with sufficient means to cover pre-retirement spending and within the first ten years of being retired such households often adapt (ie reduce spending) to "right size" their spending to better match their available resources.
        Please note, it is further suggested that:
        d) point c) may, at least in part explain point b); and
        e) households that retire fully funded could increase consumption but appear to choose not to do so.

        * notwithstanding "Our findings draw attention to the personal nature of spending"

        Some of which may apply to your scenario, and some, of course, not.

        Like

      10. > constraining retirement spend to available pension-like income is not uncommon;

        It might be a little bonkers in my case, but not necessarily unwise at this stage:

        1) I got enough to follow my interests at the moment, broadly similar for Mrs E

        2) Tourism, which many retirees spend a lot of money on, did not have the same lived enjoyment and the desperate dreams of my wage-slave life. I do some, I am unconstrained by cash but it just didn’t take me to where I got changed. This may change, after all, it’s been painful this last couple or three years. Whatever. On other side, Britain (well, England and Wales of late) had diverting enough sights and I am closer to some of the more mystical parts of the country and the stones

        2) I am a the start of my retirement journey in the language of your papers, indeed too young, technically 😉 I have a capped DB pension, it would not be unreasonable to dedicate some of the ISA to defending the erosion of that. If I live as long as my partents I have more than 20 years to go, and they were in rotten health years ago in relative terms.

        3) The NHS will go titsup in my likely lifetime, the offered load will be too high from the resources. I would be wise to consider dedicating some of the ISA to health spend, which acknowledging my decent fortune so far. If it comes to quality of life, I will pay to jump the queue.

        I am not religiously wedded to the idea of DIY, I could conceive of turning the whole thing over to an IFA. I don’t believe that an IFA is there to make your money and they won’t help you retire early, but they could probably take some aggravation out of managing the runout in a more rational way after I get to SPA. I have enough to get them interested and enough to make the fees tolerable, gives i am not looking to privilege children. I haven’t given this a huge amount of thought at this stage, but I have observed as time went by that finance became less fascinating 😉 It’s a means t living well, rater than an end in itself, particularly for those not trying to do the whole dynastic wealth thing.

        Like

      11. > Early retirees will have a depressed pre-retirement spending, this is how they get to retire early. And they will be younger, so their capital has to fund more healthy life years.

        Would I be right to infer from this that whilst your “spending did increase across the Gap” it might have been even lower in the run out [from work] years prior to the Gap?

        Do you know roughly how your spending during the run out/Gap years compares to your spending earlier in your life?

        Like

      12. > Do you know roughly how your spending during the run out/Gap years compares to your spending earlier in your life?

        OMG, doesn’t really bear thinking about. I was a higher rate taxpayer thae, I was on track to clear the mortgage in the 25 year term on a house that was sold for about 3x nominal purchase, so the MG was not that high though I was paying 6.5%. I owed nothing else, cars I bought cash. Didn’t save anything, didn’t overspend, I met the Micawber doctrine fine, and I was going to work to NRA and then retire on that.

        DxGF and I lived OK, while it wasn’t anywhere Rich Kids of London we ate out often enough, though we weren’t terrible on two of ERE’s trifecta of tickets, shopping and restaurants. We’d travel to the States a couple of times a year pursuing a common interest, the odd UK holdiay, sometimes Europe

        That went titsup just before the GFC , I entered it OK, then as of March 2009 full reverse thrust and I was roughly on NMW. Although materialist rationalists and passivista fans will discount the possibility. I did pick up some of the distant early warning signs of the GFC, paying down the mortgage but in an offset mortgage mid 2006 – if I must fall, may I fall slowly.

        Where I made an absolute full=spectrum cockup with that was not in lowering it to the minimum. It was being so fearful of being iced at work that I didn’t ramp it back up, and indeed I discharged it. Barmy. I mean for God’s sake, as cited

        Monevator would make a good case that I shouldn’t have, I could have invested in 2008 and made a mint, and indeed could have had 11 years more use of this cash, currently at rock-bottom rates. But I don’t have his edge and ambition, and in the end I wanted my house to be truly mine.

        What an absolutely fuckwitted thing to do, truly I hate the residential property asset class because it makes me do totally stupid things, I surrendered the optionality for no damn good reason whatsoever, I mean sure, mortgage rates were up at 6.5% but I could have afforded to carry on paying £6 a flipping month – say I did that until just over a decade when I expected to draw my main pension that’s about £900, in practice less due to ZIRP. Less than £1k for a decade of a fantastic ‘in emergency break glass’ mahoosive loan facility, seriously, what on earth what I was thinking of, afraid of etc etc. Bonkers. I would he been in serious trouble I had burned out and cracked up in the first two years absolutely out of options. All round risk management epic fail. Fearful people do stupid things… The addled captain of my plane jettisoning the emergency fuel tanks to save a little bit of weight – the military would have kicked that pilot out at the first stage – this candidate can’t keep his head under fire

        So yeah, I was down to NMW. There’s a deconstruction of what it was like a year before I retired here.

        Like

      13. > It might be a little bonkers in my case, but not necessarily unwise at this stage:

        All that you then write in points 1) through 3) makes sense to me. And, of course, inevitably, there will be the so-called Rumsfeld’s (aka “unknown unknowns”) too.

        An idle thought: do you think will you be able to curtail your buccaneering inner spirit which, to date, has served you (and others – HT on your gifting) well?

        Also, I do wonder how people without [possibly capped] DB pensions will cope? Lessons from the US – where seemingly some 80% of folks arrive at pensionable age under-funded – do not, on the face of it at least, bode well! ZX may well be correct when he say (below) that: “My perception is that the damage to their standard of living that many will experience when they try to retire has yet to be felt”.

        Like

      14. > you be able to curtail your buccaneering inner spirit

        I believe the usual solution to this is to turn over 90% to the IFA and to have a play ISA. I don’t want to short anything again.

        > Also, I do wonder how people without [possibly capped] DB pensions will cope?

        The obvious way there is do buy annuities, possibly laddered at increasing ages. This is arguably again something for an IFA. You or I on the open market would probably struggle to get value for say £100k of annuity at 67. another 100k at 70 etc but I’d hope that IFAs could do better. But there’s no answer to not having enough money other than working longer, that’s the flipside of the early retirement angle. TA’s article was trying to avoid eating cat food, personally if I were that hard pushed I’d use dog food, and I don’t even like dogs but I’d acknowledge the greater similarity in metabolism 😉

        Like

      15. > OMG, doesn’t really bear thinking about…
        Thanks for the detailed reply.

        IMO, you took really quite quite extreme measures to break out!

        And now I better understand why you have mentioned on several occasions that I seem to have taken a more measured/planned approach. I assure you my journey had highs and lows too. However, at a number key points I did take a different path. One obvious example being after my quarter century plus career came to an abrupt end I took some time out to consider my options and attend to some pressing matters. After a break of about 1.33 years I went back to work for another employer. Primarily, because I just did not have enough to pull the plug at that point. As I am sure you can understand my attitude to the new job was somewhat different! I guess I do tend to prefer a smoother path through life, if at all possible.

        OOI, this is really the first time that I have carefully read your earliest posts. Whilst you are just starting to find your voice these posts too are packed with good stuff and clearly hint at how your blog will develop. I particularly liked the comments from Greg Parker who recently gave us his relatively unexpurgated story in a comment to one of your posts.

        Like

      16. > after my quarter century plus career came to an abrupt end I took some time out to consider my options and attend to some pressing matters. After a break of about 1.33 years I went back to work for another employer.

        That’s a far more sensible way to do it 😉 There was shocking complacency and waste in my former life, though in fairness I do have fond and sweet memories of the years of plenty. I do not blame DxGF, the complacency was my bad, from a working class early life to experience the plenitude, I did not look for the worm in the bottom of the glass. There is resonance with Greg’s story, I read his bio and I see the mix of academic elements and the work for a Britain where industry was doing cutting edge research, particularly in electronics, I think I applied to PRL too. Britain needed more industrial science boots on the ground in those days than it could draw from the existing professional/managerial classes. It had grammar schools and free university education, but on the other hand it was quite harsh in failing the non-academic and arguably the late-flowering.

        I lost the philosophical argument about selective education with DxGF’s parents who were teachers. It was right for me, but one should not infer the general from the particular. Being child-free this is not my circus, not my monkeys.

        Old men always say it’s not like it used to me, Britain doesn’t do that sort of broad based stuff now. But I am sure that somewhere in the UK there is a space for young mustelids and astro nuts. But I do think that research base was broader and covered a wider ability range back in the day. I am not bright enough to work for Google, even if I were 30 years younger 😉 In another curious resonance I left Greg’s place of work as a mature student perhaps a year or so before he started, I did my MSc there in the same faculty.

        Your turning point came earlier in your life, five years earlier at a guess. You had the advantage of savings, which I didn’t have (though some would argue the virtually discharged offset mortgage ahead of time was). But you needed them, and probably to work a bit longer.

        I know only too well through endless spreadsheeting for myself that each extra year of early retirement is devastatingly expensive, because it both costs money and it reduces earning years. Five years is a HUGE difference. I don’t know if you had FI/RE aspirations before. I didn’t, I was OK in that middle class complacency and The Firm’s NRA was fine for me. Sounds like your next job after the hiatus may not have been at the level of the first one, but not too far off. Even if I had wanted another job at a similar level to The Firm, there weren’t any other employers in my field nearby.

        I saw I was going to be living on NMW either way. Either I do it three more years at The Firm, taking the chance of burning out, but saving all the excess into AVCs. Or I was going to end up on NMW stacking shelves at Tesco for 10 years+ to get to NRA.

        You experienced less variation in income. I don’t know your investing style, mine was unashamedly active, though I have graded this as time passed, I agree with passivistas that indexing is is a decent way to preserve capital. But it doesn’t shift the needle on the dial enough to get ahead that fast IMO, particularly for early retirees and above all for early retirees who were asleep at the switch.

        I learned the art of investing under fire, though I did have prior experience from screwing up in the dotcom boom/bust. I was gifted the massive lift of a shockingly undervalued stock market after the GFC. Valuation matters. It might have helped me in the dotcom boom to have understood that 😉

        In the three years out of the GFC low water mark it didn’t really matter what you bought. You just had to buy. I shouldn’t have chased income so much, I should have favoured tech. I should have bought more US and thinned out the home bias, FFS. But so what.

        It’s easier to buy stocks that you feel might go 100% titsup with money you were never going to see anyway, a risk share with HMRC where they took the downside risk and I took the upside because most of the win was run out below the PA. Most of the art I learned in investing was avoid some pathologies, it’s not what I do, it’s what I don’t. Warren Buffet’s punch card sums up the perfect case. I learned to cut losses quicker, the fact I managed to reduce the churn implies I got less bad in the initial choices. I am still too much of a sucker for a good story. But then I would be, I am human, we are storytellers.

        TA’s article tells me I was short when I left work, though there’s uncertainty – valuing the DB pension at HMRC’s 16x net perhaps sold it short. Oddities started to appear along the way. I did not have the same experience of decumulation as expected when observing NW ex-work, and indeed the increasing spend over time compared to your papers. I bought more house, because I don’t want to hear people’s kids and dogs through the walls next door and I want want to be able to play my favourite lady singer without feeling that I am driving the poor neighbours round the bend with this dated and slushy garbage, obviously respecting Mrs Ermine’s beauty sleep 😉 Mrs Ermine wanted more garden. This is not canonical retiree behaviour.

        I have no really good explanation for the NW not burning down as reason would expect other than damn good fortune. From Monevator’s paywall articles I clearly haven’t got his chops or his temperament. I misused some of his early post-GFC articles, you could read between the lines of some of those and I’ve never gone wrong with taking action on this. To my shame I still do the same with the odd paywall article, I am easily in profit on my £80 😉 I’m not going to get on his case if it goes titsup, and they are at the level of a flutter rather than a GIVE ME ALL THE THINGS, NOW which some of the early days were. He would give me bollocking and rub my mustelid snout in the disclaimers, but TBH nobody would invest in anything if you read disclaimers. With a bit of luck TI won’t read this 😉

        In Jung’s terminology, the alchemical Great Work of the second half of life is individuation, to know thyself. I am more than 10% older than I was when I started this project, perhaps more because the first two decades of life is being a child which is hardly living an examined life. Knowing yourself better means you know what you value, more. Value is not only measure in money, it is also shown in what your allocate your life-energy to. You only have so much, both in terms of effort and time.

        There’s a psychological maxim that we hate in others the inverted image of own weaknesses, look to that to know what you need to work on. I hated complacency in other middle class folk, because that was me 😉

        Thank you for the kind words 😉

        Like

      17. >There was shocking complacency and waste in my former life, though in fairness I do have fond and sweet memories of the years of plenty
        Ditto. Though I think I wised up earlier than you surmise. A number of things contributed to this, not least of which was being posted overseas (initially for a year, but ultimately for >3 years) with an allowance to live on. This allowed me to bank my salary and I effectively became debt free (bar some of the outstanding mortgage on my first house) by 1992. After I came back to the UK we bought another house and then got married. By the end of ’97 we were again effectively debt free ie savings matched outstanding mortgage. That mortgage was cleared in 2004. I had some shares & share options that paid off extremely handsomely. My career hit the rocks in 2009, though in hindsight the signs were there earlier. I had always had a vague thought that it would be nice to retire at 50, but I had never really explored it in any depth. During my hiatus it became clear that this would not be achievable and I did not have enough. So back to work I went. This was easier than I thought it might be and I am intrigued that you did not consider relocating earlier and looking for another job. But each to their own!
        You are correct the role I took was less senior, but that was by design. This was an interesting period and it lasted longer than required as it was OK. Some good things happened and some tough stuff too, although most of the latter was in my personal life as opposed to work life. I ended up taking a VR opportunity to go.

        I spent far less during the Gap [from jumping ship to starting my DB pension] that I thought I would, and my nominal NW increased, although I did lose out a few percentage points to the recent bout of high inflation.

        Liked by 1 person

      18. > My career hit the rocks in 2009, though in hindsight the signs were there earlier.

        that makes two of us 😉

        Housing was much kinder to you – in 1997 when you had reached mortgage:savings parity it started dawning on me that I would have to write a third of that first house down and pay it into the black hole of negative equity. This is the reason there is no house price line in my computation of networth.

        > I spent far less during the Gap [from jumping ship to starting my DB pension] that I thought I would, and my nominal NW increased,

        This similarity makes me wonder if the undervaluation in the GFC perhaps punches higher than I had allowed for

        > I am intrigued that you did not consider relocating earlier and looking for another job

        I was on a serviceable runout track in a modest backwater, then an American subsidiary did a reverse takeover of that area over about three months. There had been some quite toxic higher management changes. I managed an internal switch to an area I had a legacy skill, but I had lost too much energy by then. 2009 and the GFC was not an illustrious time to switch job and region.

        Like

      19. > This similarity makes me wonder if the undervaluation in the GFC perhaps punches higher than I had allowed for

        I have dusted down my baseline plans and had a look see.

        Approach: I am pretty conservative and used a floor plus upside approach. From the outset I had most of the foreseen flooring locked-in and held in a variety of cash and cash-like instruments such as fixed rate [savings] bonds – which our US cousins like to call CD’s. We also had a good splosh of currency diversity too. The upside is predominantly vanilla global equity trackers.

        Model: My baseline (50% confidence) model forecast that I would surrender around 40% of the initial Pot before commencing my DB at [its nominal] NRA. Higher/lower confidence models surrender more/less*. For a variety of reasons I decided to bring forward commencing my DB by around four years. My baseline model forecast I would have to surrender some 20% by that year.

        Actuals: At the end of 2016 my nominal Pot was up and just a few percentage points down correcting for [CPIH] inflation. I commenced my DB a few months ago near the start of the 23/24 tax year, and took a small tax free PCLS.

        Analysis: To the end of 2016 both my Floor holdings and my Upside actual returns exceeded their modelled returns (both nominally and real) but not massively. We also spent less than I had assumed. It is the combined effect of both of these that explains most of the outperformance to my model.

        Conclusions: a) Using my approach it seems unlikely that “undervaluation in the GFC perhaps punches higher than I had allowed for” b) my modelling was, in the round, overly conservative, and whilst this was evident fairly early on it took me a good few years to accept this and it could, of course, have gone the other way; c) I am now carrying too much cash (as used a fraction of the locked-in flooring) but it is proving hard to invest this whilst good rates are still available and the markets are wobbly, d) life happens and plans change

        *Aside: As an aside, I was well aware of this scenario before jumping ship and thought I was prepared for it to occur. However, once in retirement it is an entirely different thing to see [even theoretically] your hard won savings slip away! Within a fairly short period I had set a revised target to try and maintain the nominal value of the Pot across the Gap, even though for years I was never convinced that was going to be achievable.

        Like

      20. Interesting, thanks for the decomposition of that

        . However, once in retirement it is an entirely different thing to see [even theoretically] your hard won savings slip away! Within a fairly short period I had set a revised target to try and maintain the nominal value of the Pot across the Gap, even though for years I was never convinced that was going to be achievable.

        Haha, ain’t that the way. I think this pathology is called out in the T Rowe paper, so it’s not specific to early retirees. Arguably we were just more extreme examples in seeking not to give up nominal NW.

        Agreed the undervaluation probably didn’t change your capital as much as mine, because it sounds like your asset allocation was less equity heavy. TA’s article shows I needed the lift more. Arguably I still carried too much cash, I had three years essential spend in NSI ILSCs. Plus a £3600 cash ISA that it took me far too long to get into equities. The rest was in equities. No bonds because of the DB pension promise. No gold until a bit before Brexit

        It’s a pity there as so few UK PF reporters from the decumulation side, they fade away. It’s understandable that I underspent in the early days of FI, because my RE 8 years short was as a result of the traumatic failure of the assumption I would work to NRA. Thst sort sort of uncontrolled fail leads people to play a defensive game. It is perhaps similarly understandable that you underspent. What would be the story like for someone who decided at 30 they were going to retire at 45, accumulated the capital and executed their long-term plan in a controlled manner? Would they also be suspectible to underspending?

        After all, when I retired I could have imagined a retirement longer than my working life had been, the risk profile is such that early overspending is particularly hazardous. That logic still applies to the controlled-path early retiree. It’s the reason so many Lottery winners end up bust – a million pounds just ain’t all that for a middle-aged person wanting to stop working.

        You are by temperament a more careful modeller than me. I used excel in the early days to try and track the ISA, it was an easy job to track it because I never withdrew. Although I did spend some time trying to unitise it, as I started to have multiple ISA accounts, sometimes with the same instruments spread across them that started to get unwieldy at hard to maintain. I gave up when it showed my unit cost was dropping while Quicken showed my NW was still lifting, the error was because I had forgotten to enter the HL ISA I was dumping my Vanguard ISA shares into, so the unitising formula was writing these off as a 100% loss. So I am not a competent modeller, I have shifted to using R to keep tabs on Quicken. The grunt of having to enter transactions into two journals is some extra disincentive to churn 😉

        I now only look at the rear-view mirror at the NW chart, and ask myself if there is a good reason for changes – either market changes or spending.

        Like

      21. > Haha, ain’t that the way. I think this pathology is called out in the T Rowe paper, so it’s not specific to early retirees. Arguably we were just more extreme examples in seeking not to give up nominal NW.

        Probably. But long term, for people in our situation, it is clearly daft! Have you seen ERN’s take on DWZ at: https://earlyretirementnow.com/2023/10/06/how-useful-is-the-die-with-zero-retirement-approach-swr-series-part-60/

        Personally, I await his promised follow up.

        > because it sounds like your asset allocation was less equity heavy
        Correct. And probably still far too low. But I am trying to work on this.
        I suspect even without any changes I will continue to see some further NW uplift (now that my DB has started) but it is still early days and trying to gauge the sweet spot is very much WiP. I will not, however, see anything as dramatic as you have achieved since you started your DB.

        > It’s a pity there as so few UK PF reporters from the decumulation side, they fade away.
        100% agree.

        > because my RE 8 years short was as a result of the traumatic failure of the assumption I would work to NRA
        Yup, that is the real gotcha – but most folks wise up in the end, and as said elsewhere, it is rarely too late. In reality, my story is very dull and predictable vs your somewhat more swashbuckling adventure.

        > I now only look at the rear-view mirror at the NW chart, and ask myself if there is a good reason for changes – either market changes or spending.
        In principle I agree that this is a good approach especially if you allow for windfalls too. I am trying to tack towards this approach. However, after years of careful tracking, etc (that only intensified during the Gap – which in my case really was a leap of faith) I suspect it may take me some time to get there! Notwithstanding there are some other issues yet to full play out too. But one can only try.

        Like

      22. Couple of other thoughts:

        a) this post at kitces.com may be of some interest:
        https://www.kitces.com/blog/retirement-spending-increase-financial-advisor-client-guardrails-guaranteed-income
        also the referenced paper by Finke & Blanchett has some interesting points; albeit they posit over-simplified caricatures that do not really capture the complexity of real folks (e.g. a person with a high risk tolerance is unlikely to underspend in retirement in their model); ahem!?!

        b) the presence of redundancy, etc type payments may go some way to explaining why NW does not decline, at least initially. This is especially so if you had a high savings rate and got a decent redundancy pack; e.g. redundancy pay equivalent to one years salary should fully cover at least two years consumption for a person that had a 50% savings rate and no other sources of income, assuming they continue to spend at the same level. If you can, I would suggest you dust down your numbers and do this calculation (or even some form of approximation to it) as the answer may just surprise you.

        Like

  6. If you’re only looking for a decent cup of coffee, I’d look into a fiendishly simple Moka Pot (OK, granted you’ll need a kettle for additional hot water if espresso’s not your thing). Given that 9 out of 10 homes in Italy have a Moka Pot, what more of an endorsement do you need? Plus you have an item of proven engineering and iconic design to admire 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  7. “Hopefully Monevator will not have to kill me for letting the cat out of the paywalled bag with that quote”

    Haha, we’re good, a little extract like that is fine and the clue to the topic was rather in the title.

    Thanks as always for the links, and for a fun and discursive post!

    @Rhino — Love your description of estimating the costs of having children. I have a draft post called “The true cost of raising kids” that has been sitting unpublished for ten years. I didn’t have the stones to publish it without further softening around the edges, and that was when I was younger and meaner.

    Of course parents say it’s all worthwhile so what do I know? 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

    1. @TI – I thought they were cheap to start off with but thats because they don’t consume much when they’re small, now its a whole different beast.

      A friend just revealed they spend £120 *a week* in fuel alone to ferry *one* of their four kids to gym classes, hopefully thats a suitably terrifying insight?

      I do hope you publish your long languishing article. Chance favours the bold, I’m sure it will be a net positive when released into the wild.

      My other hope is that I can somehow influence you to acknowledge the necessity of other peoples kids to your future existence. I’m only taking about a faint glimmer of acknowledgement mind, not gushing praise, I’d pitch it on the same level as that almost imperceptible nod that cyclists give one another as they pass by on the road.

      I tried garnering this once before in some distant long lost comment and got nowhere. Tbf I did use the phrase ‘not having kids is the ultimate freeloading’ which was needlessly provocative and not a route to winning hearts and minds.

      But to restate my point, irrespective of any economic/financial argument, if your future older self (and I mean you specifically) doesn’t have those young warm bodies physically in existence in the supermarket/surgery/garage/bin-van etc. etc. you are absolutely screwed. So don’t be too harsh on us when you think about paying out for schools, play-parks, child benefit and so on and so forth…

      Like

      1. We have two fast growing teenagers. We have been FI since they were around 5.

        The costs of raising them have been buffeted for us by moving to the South of France. “Private Education” is a mere fraction of the UK – 1.5K per year per child. University is still reasonably priced here. Holidays are on our doorstep (local festivities, swimming etc.), skiing in the winter 200 / day, the med 3hrs down the road, mountain walks 2hrs, historic sites, Atlantic coast 2.5hrs, Spain 5hrs etc. No need for flight tickets.

        Housing is a fraction of the cost to by compared to the UK. We have a lovely farmhouse in the countryside for less than the cost of a bungalow in the midlands. We heat our house with wood central heating 700 / year (shorter season), have solar hot water and some offset solar electricity 700 / year electricity bill. We own a LPG car which costs 80 / month to fill up to run the kids around for their many activities (judo, music, languages, art classes) and competitions all over our region.

        We get some free fruit and vegetables from the garden for little effort. Local food produces sell direct cutting out the middle men.

        Our cost of living is £28K per year with 4-5 holidays for the 4 of us. Sure University will be expensive for the duration should they go….or they can pocket the cash and start their own business. So from our experiences – admittedly in a different country (should we move to Thailand) show it is possible to raise kids without spending heavily.

        This spending is paid from dividends, a small property income and small side hustle.

        We have been able to do this as the less we need to spend on essentials the less we need to earn before tax. Ermines posts on driving down wasteful spending are very interesting for me personally.

        It is no big deal for us in turning appliances off at the plug after use. We have invested to reduce our fixed costs (the solar stuff, heating system, car and some free food) which has a consistent (perhaps better) return than the markets.

        Throughout this period or pensions have been untouched and left to grow…but not added to. They are in company schemes – not the best but they have a pension protected age for “retirement” of 50 (fortunately at the time the kids could go to Uni). We both started or pensions from the start of our first jobs which has allowed the wonder of compounding to do its magic.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. @ Contender, @Rhion apologies for the delay in clearing this. For some reason Akismet has gone bonkers, it used to only can genuine spammers but now KOs some real comments too

        Like

    2. As a suggestion, give the first article away for free. I feel bad about saying that, because I hate people that do that I’m glad I won’t heard from m’learned friends for the quotes though (fingers crossed).

      As for the kids article, well, full metal jacket 😉 As I get older I tire of the hypocrisy. The gramps on their fourth foreign holiday whimpering about the climate emergency and their fricking grandkids. I confess I switch off when I hear anything emergency. Some is good, more ain’t better, guys, and I’d like to see Just Stop Oil try and live without oil, mobile phones, whatever. And the BTLers wondering why their kids can’t afford to buy a house. Be the change, guys, BTL is the problem. And the BS about IHT. If £1mm ain’t enough, your kids are doing OK 😉

      I take @Rhino’s point that being child-free is freeloading, though the world is not short of humans at this point in time, it may come to pass once I am gone.

      Like

      1. yeh agreed there’s way too many of us, you’ve just got to keep an eye on the age distribution within whatever population you’ve got though otherwise the wheels fall off. Thankfully it looks like the direction of travel is toward a slowly decreasing number though which is probably the least worst outcome, if Hans Rosling and co are to be believed (and he was very believable).

        Like

      2. > you’ve just got to keep an eye on the age distribution within whatever population you’ve got though

        That’s something that’s not particularly actionable once you’re born. In the taxonomy of things for which coffee is the solution or red wine, that’s definitely in the red wine category 😉

        > Hans Rosling and co are to be believed (and he was very believable)

        Yup. Unfortunately the track of Limits to Growth is also very believable, I’d say the decline in living standards is already apparent, and that’s in rich countries, it’s worse elsewhere 😦

        Like

  8. Sometimes I think your outpourings could have come from my own fair hand, but it wouldn’t be nearly as eloquent. On the subject of repairing things, I’ve always dabbled and six months ago joined a repair cafe. Last week, a faulty Dyson V10 came in which the owner had the sense to bring along. A new £4.95 power button (p+p included) saved it from landfill. I enjoy it so much that I’m in the process of setting up a new repair cafe in a local Upcycle centre.

    And talking of work, I was the unfortunate soul who did take the ‘unindexed higher start option’ (same firm, same DB pension) nearly three years ago. At the time who would have thought that inflation would skyrocket ? No regrets though. I only had 15 years service and the enhanced lump sum was invested and not spaffed on holidays and fancy cars. And I’m also covered by another DB pension and private plans.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Commiserations on the pension! I do remember those balmy days before Covid when it seemed inflation was controlled.

      Nice one on the new repair cafe project! And the Dyson repair, I salute the superior repair-fu. A Dyson defeated me, I could make it run OK but the vacuum was poor, probably general wear. I wasn’t sad to get rid of the ear-splitting and rather high-pitched racket that it always made.

      Like

  9. Great post, lots to digest. I read the Monevator article before he remembered to put it behind the paywall, I should probably subscribe cheapskate git that I am.

    I’ve got one of these AeroPress things, maybe I’m doing it wrong on the coffee? https://www.aeropress.co.uk/

    I wonder how many FI folks get nostalgic at the mention of 555 ID timer chips, I’ve still got some in a project box somewhere along with CMOS 4000 chips like the 4017 decade counter – from building projects in those R.A Penfold books I think. The hours of fun and learnings I had as a teenager!

    Liked by 1 person

    1. > The AeroPress paper filters are compostable and can be used multiple times

      Gosh. The reuse is really quite remarkable. I got Mrs Ermine a manual pressy espresso maker for on the road when she can’t use the stovetop gizmo, but it makes battery acid IMO. So I use a bog standard Melitta china filter when camping.

      555 timers are outre these days now we have microcontrollers, but there’s still the occasional role. Mine was the nuts and volts power unit

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I tried recycling the AeroPress filters once and gave up after the first time, too much faff and mess! After some 5+ years or so the plastic barrel gets scored so much by the coffee grounds it doesn’t press so well as the air gets past the plunger, I’m on the second one. It’s a good solution for only one coffee drinker in the house, the coffee tastes fine to me.

        Like

  10. RE: Cost of kids, 10 years ago I said my natural cost of living with 2 kids was £18k – £20k.
    https://monevator.com/financially-independent-in-10-years-a-plan/#comment-598551
    It continued to be that level for 10 years, kids now currently out of the nest.
    Using the same general argument, (mean household income – cost of housing) in 2023 £32k – £14.4k = £17.6k.

    You’ll know when the average household with average amount of kids can’t access a decent quality of life in one of the richest countries on the planet by the procession of flaming torches and pitchforks converging on SW1.

    > agree that £28k for a *child-free* couple feels quite tight
    Really? Some recalibration required I think 🙂

    RE: Coffee, I’m on the ‘Mellow birds’ end of the spectrum too, the Aeropress was my favourite coffee brewer but the plastic (polycarbonate?) barrel on both of mine distorted after about 3 years and started shooting scalding coffee over my hand. I’m rocking a bodum pour over now, but supplementing the steel filter with paper filters to take the edge off. I’m hoping this hits the mellow/maintenance free/longevity sweet spot, but every time I pick it up it feels like I’m going to butter fingers it.

    >> [the ermine has] probably have the most unclear style of writing I have ever read on a finance blog

    That my friend is a feature not a bug.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. > Really? Some recalibration required I think 🙂

      I accept the charge of living higher on the hog. Mind you, the JRF report seems to agree with my estimate. A pensioner couple (we aren’t, but say that’s the closest) needs £27400, and they don’t get to run a car. It looks like only people with children are allowed cars in JRF world.

      I’m with you on the need for paper coffee filters. The metal ones always seem to let fine grounds through, may as well use a cafetiere then.

      Like

      1. The sort of retired lifestyles implied by the JRF report seems pretty threadbare. No car isn’t going to work in vast swaths of the country. Also where are the multiple vacations? Some make be fine without them but I suspect most would see it as quite a miserable existence.

        My perception is that the damage to their standard of living that many will experience when they try to retire has yet to be felt. Their parents, the boomer generation, is often still living high on DB pensions and the triple lock, and the “free” NHS. None of those will exist for Gen X or later. So many in younger generations are yet to fully accept that Boomers will be the anomaly. It will come crashing down once the Boomers are dead. They will have sold all the silver in return for terrible vacations in Magaluf!

        Liked by 1 person

      2. The Torygraph has a different take which is that there is a massive transfer of wealth underway to some of these generations as Boomers cark it

        This great wealth transfer, estimated at around $100 trillion (£820bn), will have global implications. In the UK alone, at least £5.5 trillion nearly three times our annual GDP – will be passed from my generation, the Baby Boomers, to Millennials (born between 1981 and 1996) and Gen Z (1997-2012)

        The beneficiaries will build barbed wire and watchtowers around their gated communities, at a guess. Dunno how that will get sorted…

        In fairness to the JRF, they’re all about the minimum workable income, they don’t claim it’s living high on the hog

        Like

      3. JRFs methodology is unusual (Imagineering budgets in a focus group). The Which? retirement budgets are a better “artificial horizon” tool (cluster analysis of a large sample of real budgets).
        Though I suspect they run a little hot due to sample and to be fair even these raise more questions at the micro level than they answer, e.g. £72 pcm on broadband and phone? wtf?
        https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/planning-your-retirement/how-much-will-you-need-to-retire-aNmlv7V7sVe9#which-retirement-income-targets

        Liked by 1 person

  11. We – and by we I mean my other half, because I was a committed cafetiere user – got a L’Or Barista coffee machine recently which is compatible with Nespresso pods, and I am now a convert. I didn’t want an electric machine with buttons, or one that wasted aluminium via pods, but the convenience and lack of mess is most welcome. Even if my compost bin misses the coffee grounds.

    The problem is that many things that people seem to highly value and spend money on I just don’t. In particular I lean towards things where I learn something or change something, though being changed is also good. They don’t have to be earth-shattering or world-changing, just interesting.

    Right back at ya. On the being changed, I found therapy the most interesting thing I have ever spent money on. Insight into my mind, my thinking and my behaviours that I wasn’t aware of. Interesting, not pleasant.

    I enjoyed the post. Am 40 next month and have been having many “wish I’d known this 20 years ago” thoughts. 20 years of being consumed by work; I’m determined the next 20 won’t be the same but we’ll see if that happens, given the agism in employment markets and working in IT where AI will knock out a lot of jobs within 10 years. Which I suspect means I’ll become consumed by finding a way to stay in work rather than unemployed. Given the slapdash work and lack of knowledge of every domestic electrician I’ve met, I’ve pencilled that in as a backup career.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. > I enjoyed the post. Am 40 next month and have been having many “wish I’d known this 20 years ago” thoughts.

      I first found SLS in 2019 when I was looking for some UK-based information about de-accumulation. I was already a couple of years into my de-acc phase and was unsure about some things. There was quite a lot of coverage of/for the US, but at a detailed level the UK tax landscape, etc is quite different. In 2019 there was virtually no UK-based PF blogs that covered de-accumulation. Not that many now either; Monevator having just started out on a series about this, albeit behind a paywall.
      Having said that, it turns out SLS is IMO really good; packed with great stuff and @Ermine is gracious and generous with his time and knowledge – see e.g. just how much chatter I have had with him since my first comment in April 2019. Do not expect to find the blog an easy read – but that is just his style (or to echo some of the previous comment above, his self-styled “waffle” is a feature and not a bug). It does get easier as you become familiar with it. You may well have to put in some work to get at the real nuggets, but they are there and like all good things in life your efforts will usually be rewarded in spades.

      In my opinion, this particular post covers more of the total scope of @E’s journey (to date) than any other post on the site. So you are already in luck. Also, I would not be surprised if over time people begin to use this post to launch off into other areas @E covers in greater depth.

      IMO, the one over-riding lesson is that you are responsible for you and whatever you do try not to become too dependent on employers; loyalty often ends up being a one-way street and the pejorative term “wage slave” has more than a smattering of truth to it.

      Change is never easy, but its rarely too late.
      Best of luck with your next phase.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I am surprised there are relatively few decumulators, FI has been a thing long enough that those that started out of the GFC should also be reporters transmitting from t’other side of the event horizon.

        Worth adding to the decumulation canon of Monevator’s paywall article the free items:

        FIREside chat

        and from the days before CV19, readers should bear in mind that we aren’t in a ZIRP world now, although some of the things are invariant.

        Greybeard

        more on the same theme

        cashing in FSP (probably don’t try this now, it’s a different world)

        For some reason you can’t list the Greybeard’s articles using a tag.

        Like

    2. > I found therapy the most interesting thing I have ever spent money on.

      That’s really quite fascinating, and speaks to both the know thyself as well as knowing that you don’t know, and a H/T to the wisdom of doing it (I am guessing) before it is a firefighting situation. My admiration!

      40 ain’t a bad time to reflect on the road ahead – long enough to know yourself more, early enough to still throw the switches to direct your future career in a different direction.

      Like

  12. Big tea drinker here. I only have a jar of instant coffee, in case people come round and want a cup, but inveitably the jar passes it’s ‘best before’ date, before being fully used.

    There was a BBC podcast on smart thermostats. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001rq3d They weren’t ‘the best thing since sliced bread’. A better thing was some do-hickey you could attach to a boiler to stop ‘over-shoot’. i.e. if your thermostat was set to 20, the heating would switch off, but the temparature would go above 20, to say 22, due to the heat in the radiators. This gizmo, was smart enough to work out how much the overshoot would be and therefore switch of the heating early to stop your heating system overshooting beyond the value set on the thermostat.

    My solution is to set the thremostat to 18 if I want to the temperature to not go beyond 20, due to overshoot. Not sure why they didn’t talk about that and had a much higher tech solution?

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I listed to that programme and I am even more confuzzled now. There seem two compensation controls possible, one turns the thermostat up if it’s cold outside, as told by the met office i guess? I can see that could be transformational for storage heaters. I take the point that condensing boilers have a narrower efficiency sweet spot that appears to depend on temp and humidity outside and given the close proximity to the increased CO problem you may need to automate that, fair enough.

      The sort of thing they were talking about, load compensation, seems to dtemp/dt feedforward. And the punter realistically said we are 70, this is more aggro than it’s worth.

      Glad the programme mentioned the orphaning problem with smart-anything!

      Like

      1. and this https://viessmanndirect.co.uk/Catalogue/Controls/Vitotrol-100/Vitotrol-100-E-Modulation-Control-7968153 for the ‘modulation control’ load comp no external sensor variant. They would appear to be mutually exclusive. the modulation control looks to me like converting the normal Type 1 control system into a Type II control loop. Whereas the weather sensor looks like a feedforward system, with the benefit of pre-empting the thermal propagation delay through the house walls. Which is all very well if you can characterise that and dial in the thermal mass and delays, but unless you can make a one size fits all assumption it’s a bit hard to think that falls in the remit of your average hairy-arsed HVAC dude trying to fit in four jobs in one day.

        I can’t actually say that I have observed the problem this whiz-kiddery is trying to fix, but if it is optimising the operating point of the boiler rather than reducing internal temperature fluctuations perhaps I wouldn’t notice. I am stuffed anyway –

        > Cannot be used on System S or Y plans.

        Like

      2. Re weather comp
        The system comes pre-loaded with a series of heat curves; and you select one.
        IMO it works well, and the approach is widely used in colder places like D & CH

        Like

  13. 45 eh. The good old days! I turn 45 next month with little to show for it. Financial planning gets extremely weird in the latter half of a working life as a renter. Not enough working years left to clear a 25 or 30y mortgage in time and the cost of securing housing crowds out retirement savings. It is theoretically doable but the numbers are wild, like 40% of take-home going into home saving, 30% into rent, 10% into retirement, and the remaining 20% on “living” costs.

    +1 for Aeropress. Mine is nearly 10 years old, though I switched to a metal filter with a “prismo” add-on to make it zero-spill and zero-waste. The most annoying part is mentally counting out the coffee grind time. Thought about adding some kind of timer+relay circuit, or lazy mode with a wifi power outlet & software macro.

    Like

    1. The world is odd. An American blogger, Jim in San Marcos, writes:

      Two years ago I refinanced our home with a 2.25% interest rate on a 25 year loan. I’ll be 99 years old when I pay it off. Why a bank would write out a loan to someone 76 years old boggles my mind.

      Like

Leave a comment