No more income tax cuts

Many years ago, Thatcher made a big song and dance about wanting to cut the headline rate of income tax, which was 30% at the time. Higher rate tax was at a much higher rate, the Beatles who were so pissed off about it they wrote a song about the taxman. Thatcher was right, a top income tax rate of over 90% was probably too high 😉 Notable about post-war Britain was it was flatter in income than today, a lot of money came in the form of the aristocracy, which is still there but somewhat drowned out by the nouveaux riche in the last 40 years. The aristocracy didn’t have too much problem with income tax because their riches came in the form of capital.

Inocme share over time. The bottom 10% have been mullered, particularly since the GFC. Presumably there were no poor people years ago because they didn’t register in the stats

The grocer’s daughter backfilled the hole in the Government’s finances before launching her tax cuts, largely through the free gift of North Sea oil, and selling off anything publicly owned that wasn’t nailed down. The personal finance motto holds – save before you spend on elective nice-to haves, a gracenote that the Liz Truss “I was right all along” tribute band didn’t find the need to play.

In doing that Thatcher established a shibboleth that income tax is in and of itself wrong. In her time, given where she started and these two free gifts, it probably was higher than it should have been.

The first free gift of North Sea oil revenues we seem to have parked in house prices, imagine what we could have done with that otherwise. The beneficiaries of this are primarily Gen X and Boomers1, and their legacy to their greedy kids as time goes by. Everybody wants to favour their kids over everybody else, this will lead to feudalism as time goes by, hopefully this is will not happen fast enough to be my problem. See the concept of private schools and the bizarre claims that inheritance tax is the most hated tax in the UK. The torygraph gets its knickers in a twist over IHT all the time and comes to exactly the wrong conclusion after acknowledging the rising amounts of dynastic wealth. As for the journalistic flannel of calling it a tax on the dead, if there’s ever an occasion that you can resolutely tell HMRC to eff right off it’s from six foot under. What are they going to do, put your stiff in prison? There’s not enough place for the living as it is.

That article makes much of your 3k a year allowance, I wonder if the AI instance otherwise known as Carl Emerson is aware that humans live about three score years and ten, and start their lives mewling and puking so 20 years of that is written off being a child. So even if you start giving your future wealth away as soon as you come of age that’s £156k you get to give away IHT free, which is not a huge amount against a functional allowance of over a million sods, particularly given the impracticality of getting halfway there 😉

In general if you want to favour your kids then Be No King Tut and give it to them by the time you’re 63. If you’re lucky you get to enjoy them living the dream for seven years or more, and if they piss it all away on the horses then you clearly failed in you parental duty to inculcate good character and deserve all you get, either way IHT is not their or your problem

The second free gift, selling off everything not nailed down, is the source of a large part of what’s wrong with Britain now. Once upon a time we acknowledged a basic and fundamental truth, which is that most Britons didn’t earn enough to carry the stupendous load and lumpy cost base of owning a house on a small island with lots of people.

They still can’t can’t afford the capital investment, but where previous generations could live in council housing now they are at the mercy of rapacious BTL landlords who bought up most of that stock to turn a profit. A younger mustelid was one of the poor people cleansed from cities, so I struggle to find a huge amount of sympathy for the I lived here as a kid crowd, nobody has a right to live where they grew up. I saw that train wreck heading my way a long time ago and took evasive action. Straight into a lesser train wreck, but at least one I could crawl from the wreckage. There still should be a reasonable housing option for people who can’t afford the capex as previous generations ensured, rather than fleecing the poor and banking it into the hands of Boomer/GenX BTL landlords to pass it on to their wastrel children

Other things that needed a decade-long time horizon worked better before privatisation – for instance the market couldn’t be arsed to build reservoirs in the UK, as you can see if you list the reservoirs on wikipedia and rank by completion date. In general I think the results from 40 years of the Great British privatisation experiment are in.

State inefficiency is replaced by private-sector inefficiency, which in itself isn’t the problem, but the short-termism is. To be honest I’d rather see civil servants cream off ‘gold plated pensions’ rather than support overpaid ‘because they’re worth it’ utility CEOs with taxpayer money. This description of privatisation as a modern version of the Enclosures in Britain has cogence.

historic enclosures of common land, excluding some in order to strengthen property rights for others. Think of the American intellectual property regime that (prior to a 2013 court ruling) developed to allow 4,300 human genes to be patented as if they were inventions. Or indeed of its European equivalent, not long ago strengthened in the name of “creativity,” to guarantee fees for the great-grandchildren of ageing rockers for decades after their death.

Some things did respond well – the deregulation of finance was successful in many ways. Utilities and railways, not so much. On the other side of the balance Mick Lynch is poster child for what is wrong with State provision – it allows the Scargills and Red Robbos of this world to rule the roost.

The tough problem with all of this – the right point on the nightwatchman state/European social democracy spectrum is that these are balances of opposing forces. In most such balances the forces should do just that, balance. We don’t need British Leyland back again, nor do we need privatised water, and private housebuilding seems pretty naff.

So what’s wrong with income tax cuts? Nobody wants to pay tax, and nobody wants to pay more tax, for sure. However, despite the rantings of the torygraph who say the tax burden is the highest ever, well yes, Torygraph, meet inflation! I remember paying proportionally more tax on my first job than my last, which was rather better paid than the first in real terms. What else has been happening over the last 40 years?

Since 1970, area rates of poverty and wealth in Britain have changed significantly. Britain is moving back towards levels of inequality in wealth and poverty last seen more than 40 years ago.

Yeah, anyone with eyes in their heads can see that. It’s particularly apparent to me in urban areas. Rural poverty tends to be less apparent because it is more spread out. Poverty is extremely visible in some seaside areas. The JRF says that nearly four million people are destitute.

The problem with the income tax is bad shibboleth is that it makes for bad policy, as tax has to be hidden elsewhere, with proxies for income. Council tax, for instance, uses house valuations as a proxy for income, and the starving of council funding by central government knocking off a third in real terms during the current regime shows up, first in crappy services and ultimately in bankruptcy.

All over the place there are hidden taxes and/or things costing too much, because of the income tax is bad doctrine. Why is income tax worse than hiding the cost of doing things in other places? As for the barmy idea of cancelling inheritance tax, WTF? The Torygraph has quite a good chart on the historical real terms levels of the tax thresholds. Although the article bellyaches about the personal allowance, I note it is still one and a half times what it was in real terms before the GFC, if you want to know what the LibDems ever did for you, then that uplift in the personal allowance during the Coalition was one thing that lasted, even if it is being eroded now.

Obvious future wins for the government are equalising CGT and pension tax with tax on earned income, and I do need to clear that SIPP out before Labour adds NI to pension income, which looks like a logical step. I am obviously maxing the ISA holdings first, with a bit of luck when the Lifetime ISA limit happens they will grandfather historical amounts, in the same way as they did with the LTA when it was reduced.

So I’m going to go out on a limb here. No more bloody income tax cuts, you stupid wankers. I know it’s catnip to your base, but you don’t have Thatcher’s windfalls. You keep on bitchin’ about the untermenschen spending more than they can afford, well, it’s sauce for the gander too.

of non-investments masquerading as alternative investments

Monevator has a bit on whether premium bonds are a good investment, as a basic rate taxpayer with little honest earnings income from selling my time for money (I don’t, now) it seems a maybe.

As I get older I seem to get more sensitive to being ripped off. I can somehow live with being taxed on dividends, but being taxed on cash deposits hacks me off in spades, because when the ‘return’ is less than inflation, then it’s not a return, it’s a reduction in loss. The obvious hint that the Universe is giving me is don’t hold that much cash, bozo, as opposed to the inference the Torygraph’s old duffers draw, bleating for tax cuts while people starve on the streets like in a Charles Dickens novel 😉

That’s 18 months of premium bonds full whack and I got £2525 interest, ending up about 3.4%. Given that the Bank of England tells me the value of this 50k stake has fallen by £4200 obviously I have eaten some crow. Given that bank interest rates have monotonically risen across the period from 0.5% to a shade over 5%, that is a serviceable average. The story of governments stealing value from the masses by devaluing the coin of the realm is as old as history.

BoE Interest rates trajectory

The Premium Bond returns are lumpy as hell

Which presumably why Monevator is telling me that taking the expected return “But this is to misunderstand how probability works.” Because I am, of course, taking a sample from the £121bn total and a very small one at that – n=50000 in my case. I believe that in the case of premium bonds each £1 buys one bond. The prize fund rate is 4.65%, the expected variation were these normally distributed then I’d expect most of my returns to be within 1% of this mean value (that’s ~ 4.6 to 4.7%, not 5.7% to 3.7%!) to get within two standard deviations of the mean. On a 50k stake the noise in the return rate is dominated by the general buggering about of interest rates, and there is some undeclared deliberate fiddling to skew the returns so they can say a large headline figure of possible payouts while keeping most punters happy. The presumption of normality of the distribution is therefore moot. This fiddling is because humans are susceptible to the ‘it could be you’ effect that the National Lottery play on so successfully to extract money from poor people to spend on middle-class ‘good projects’ – a piece of State supported evil perpetrated by John Major’s Tory government in the 1990s.

Robin Hood would not approve. If I were God for a day I would ban the National Lottery in particular, because I have spent too many hours in Co-op shops behind some punter buying Harry Rags and a scratchcard, and I can hear it in the banter ‘twixt punter and sales person that the punter believes there’s a realistic chance of winning. At least the cigarettes deliver a guaranteed win.

However, Premium Bonds aren’t like that, since they don’t relieve you of your stake, and with a large enough sample size you can get the variation down to workable amounts. It’s never going to be you with the million pound prize, I don’t hold Premium Bonds for the infinitesmal chance of shitloads of money. I use them because they are tax free, and about as risk-free on capital as you can imagine. There is the known risk of 10% of the value falling off the wagon every year of late, natch.

Something being tax free gives me a win on two fronts, one is obviously not paying tax on it but the other win is not having to fill in the paperwork. Doing that by hand is tiresome. I use Raisin for unsheltered cash savings, because they act a bit like a nominee account for shares – their intermediary Meteor asset management holds the cash, so I don’t have to sign up with a bunch of different banks. These days that is not just a pain in the arse but a significant hazard of having your personal details spaffed to ne’rdowells, sign up with as few things as possible 😉

Raisin has that advantage for banking, where all the know your customer shit makes this more intrusive. For income Raisin give you a consolidated tax certificate. I wish I had known that would come out (it was in May I think) before I had decided to streetfight adding up all these bits from their website, which I still managed to get wrong, I had held off submitting this the HMRC in a vague hope they would give an official certificate of interest.

I use TaxCalc for doing the tax return. Sure, it’s £35 a year I don’t need to pay, the HMRC online system is serviceable though klutzy and error-prone in my hands as you have to choose to save your work if you are not one of thse hyper-organized people who get everything ready before you start. And TaxCalc does a great job of sorting out capital gains tax and the declarations you have to do.

The rules of declaration of capital gains are complicated – in particular the requirement to declare transactions where the annual proceeds > four times the CGT limit even if the gains do not breach the CGT limit of £6k (now) which would set a limit of £24k, and this implies there is/was a separate £25k limit. So if you bought £100k of Mustelid Enterprises and sold it for £50k you would still have to declare this (proceeds > CGT limit * 4) even though you were nursing a whopping loss. At least you could book this loss and roll it forward to offset against any gains over the CGT limit in future. But say the hard-working mustelids had dropped a 10% gain on you, well, it’s less than the (at that time) 12k CGT allowance. But since you have sold something worth more than 4 * 12k you still have to declare it even if no tax falls due, which is a shit. Presumably if you sold > 48k of shares in total you have to declare it, even if you made zero cap gain. This year that will be 24k due to the lower CGT allowance. Even more complicated, say you are a big churner, say a day trader, and you sell £1000 of shares and buying another £1000 on the turn 24 times in the year, but making no capital gain and no losses. Do you have to declare that even though there’s no tax to pay? Beats the hell out of me as to whether that’s the case.

I took my £12k capital gain last tax year largely on gold and BP shares, but with Taxcalc it is reasonably easy to declare all sales, I am not a shockingly active investor since time has shown most money is made sitting on your hands.

It never was my thinking that made the big money for me. It always was my sitting. Got that? My sitting tight!

Jessie Livermore, a well known historical shorter. That is not to say he was advocating being a passivista 😉

But I CBA to work out if I need to declare other sales or combinations, so I declare all. That does produce screeds of cruft in the tax declaration, particularly if I sell a holding I have been building up incrementally over time. But it’s better to declare what’s not necessary than fail to declare what is, IMO. And obviously I sweat the ISA allowance, and I still use the ~3.6k SIPP allowance, although having to pay tax on 75% of it weakens the tax advantage to 6%, that’s £180 a year. I have held some of that as shares over a few years, but I am thinking of drawing the lot out before an incipient Labour government has the bright idea of charging NI on pension income which would turn that measly £180 win into an eyewatering loss 😉

of gold and CGT

The tax on capital gains is lower than that on income for basic rate taxpayers, and you can choose the time and place of battle with shares. Obviously you first max your ISA, which is a decent wedge these days. In a second part of his series on deadbeat investments, Monevator had a piece about whether gold is a good investment. Eh? It’s not an investment at all. Think of it as old-fashioned Bitcoin, with better garb, and a track record of thousands of years rather than ten 😉 Its peculiar difference from investments is that it is a bearer instrument – possession is everything. That, of course, means it is not productive. You can get productive physical possessions like a farm or a business, but you generally can’t run with them. Gold in physical form does peculiar things to the human psyche. The fictitious character of Gollum encapsulated many of these. I don’t really do physical, I do have a couple of sovereigns and a teeny gold bar given to me by relatives.

given to me by my grandfather. Last time I wrote about it it was worth £20, now it’s £57, which is rather better than just tracking inflation, in which case it would be worth £28

Gold is not a financial investment IMO. It is an investment in you. It makes it easier to watch other stuff go down and go ‘meh’. It also makes you do weird shit. F’rinstance my 10 years younger self observed that gold has no place in the ISA, and it only took me a decade to action that, and give this bed-blocker the order of the boot, into the GIA. Some of this was practical, I didn’t have a GIA in those days, because the ISA and SIPP/AVCs were hard enough to keep up with given my limited resources, and the gold holding was not as big as it is now. But even so, I gave up return. Gold is an old man’s pastime, if you are a young gun on the make then steer well clear. But what it does do is offer a little bit of relative constancy compared with the fickle stock market. I have shown the chart of SGLP (gold ETF) relative to VWRL, which is about parity as a holding in my case. The VWRL has been built up over many years, I have never sold a share of this ETF.

No contest in returns, but the suckouts are less sharp

Gold in a GIA is an interesting swing producer of gains/losses, as it has a slight tendency to go opposite to changes in the stock market. The narrowing CGT allowance means it’s more important to balance these, and churning the holdings can be a way to harvest losses – for instance selling SGLP for SGLN, and similarly VWRL has a corresponding Invesco FTSE All-world ETF. Obviously the grand aim is to increase the total amount, which is a capital gain, but within the limited collar of the CGT allowance.

This GIA is not a balanced portfolio. The green pacman is SGLP

SGLP is a much larger part of the GIA than would be rational for my age and risk tolerance, there is the hidden iceberg of the ISA estate that it’s also offsetting. Portfoliocharts shows the effect of gold on reducing the ulcer index, and also the limitations of mo’betta – 20% is about the upper limit, otherwise you risk going to a very specific type of Gollum-esque goldbug hell, eating a significant negative real return for a large proportion of your life. Don’t do that. Again, young guns should steer clear, invest in productive assets.

At the moment gold is showing gains and is probably overvalued. I will have losses to harvest in future, the general feeling is don’t buy any more, and arguably the proportion relative to total networth is on the high side. OTOH I took capital gains enough on gold this last tax year. I am looking to hold a constant amount in gold ounces, rather than cash terms, and hopefully the equities will beat it out and get the proportion down.

My biggest problem is cash holdings, I despise cash with a vengeance and got to pay income tax on the interest. Given the stock markets are drifting down and October is almost through I need to load up. I have contributed the last half of my Vanguard ISA today though they don’t yet seem to allow me to buy ‘owt with it. I try and buy about half in the first part of the year because passivistas keep yattering about time in the market, but I tend to hold about half to contribute about now, because October tends to be bad for equities, and I like the sugar rush of the Santa rally. I bought some in that ISA last week and VWRL is more attractive now than it has been for a while.

All in all, no, gold isn’t an investment, nor is cash/premium bonds. They aren’t productive in any useful manner, and stuff like that is called saving, and then only if you are lucky. The real value of cash is likely to slowly drip through my fingers over time for the rest of my life due to increasing financial repression, dunno about gold. You can’t fight financial repression. It’s like bears. Avoid bears. Don’t fight bears. They will kill you.


  1. I fall into this cohort category, but I am not one of these beneficiaries, buying my first house still counts as my all-time top financial epic fail

18 thoughts on “No more income tax cuts”

  1. 1. “largely through the free gift of North Sea oil”: ah, and how much bigger that would have been if that prize ass Wilson hadn’t gifted so much of our sea bed to Norway.

    2. “for instance the market couldn’t be arsed to build reservoirs in the UK”: I gather that you’re simply wrong there. The companies submitted plans for reservoirs and the planners or councillors said “no”. Repeatedly.

    3. “as a modern version of the Enclosures in Britain has cogence.” A weak argument: the popular beliefs about the enclosures – or at least the well documented Parliamentary enclosures of the 18th and 19th century – are largely hooey. (I don’t know much about the Tudor enclosures but I bet almost nobody else does either.)

    4. Council housing: I have never read a complainer about the sale of council houses who seems genuinely to have absorbed the truth that when the house was sold it didn’t just evaporate: there it still stood, still housing a family.

    5. “while people starve on the streets like in a Charles Dickens novel” Unless the poor buggers are insane I simply don’t believe this.

    6. “The story of governments stealing value from the masses by devaluing the coin of the realm is as old as history.” You mighty try to be consistent in your complaints – obviously the stealing is greatest from the people who have money which, by your account, excludes the masses.

    7. But I must end on a positive note. How refreshing to find someone who urges the increase of income tax having explained that much of his income is tax-free because it comes from ISAs and Premium Bonds.

    P.S. “A Nobel-winning economist named Harry Markowitz first used a similar chart to study what he called the efficient frontier”: well, counterfeit Nobel. Anyway, he was once asked how he actually allocated his own investments. His answer was 50% Treasuries, 50% Equities. Maybe he was thinking of the era when it was illegal for Americans to hold gold.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. > How refreshing to find someone who urges the increase of income tax having explained that much of his income is tax-free because it comes from ISAs and Premium Bonds.

    Intriguing. I must find some of that income that you say I have. I pay more tax than the PBZ and a significant part of the ISA notional income, though I spend my pension rather than the ISA income, natch. Not quite sure how no more cuts equated to increase, but there you go

    > there it still stood, still housing a family.

    yeah, yeah yeah. Standard wingnut hooey. This was straight capital extraction from a public service into the purchase of votes, and there are rather more people in the UK than in 1981 so the cessation of council house building meant 40 years of general house price rises.

    > obviously the stealing is greatest from the people who have money which, by your account, excludes the masses.

    fair cop, guv 😉 They shouldn’t be holding it in cash anyway, though far too many in the lower middle do.

    > Unless the poor buggers are insane I simply don’t believe this.

    No food banks and rough sleeping, both explicit on the streets and hidden (tents, vans) round your way? Must be a very des res indeed. Even in the centre of Oxford its obvious. Maybe I haven’t read enough Dickens, I failed Eng Lit on that.

    > and the planners or councillors said “no”. Repeatedly.

    Strange how that started in 1980 then. Must’ve been all those new owner-occupiers Thatcher gifted half their houses to, perhaps

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    1. «because of the income tax is bad doctrine. Why is income tax worse»

      Very late reply, but explaining the right-wing mindset is easy:

      * 70% of income tax is paid by the top 10% of taxpayers. This means to right-wing people that tax paying is looting, and the top 10% of taxpayers fund most of the cost of goodies for the 90%.

      * Given that a taxpayer on 200,000 per year pays in income tax more than 10 times than one on 20,000 a year for the same state services. Same “product”, different prices.

      What right-wing people want is not even fixed percentage taxation, but fixed amount taxation, where every taxpayer is charge the same amount for the same services, like membership in a gym or a club. That was why Thatcher introduced the poll tax: the plan was to do that and then shift most state services to local councils, leaving only “night watchman” services in the national level.

      «than hiding the cost of doing things in other places?»

      That cost is not hidden, it is shifted from high-income taxpayers to someone else.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. «Given that a taxpayer on 200,000 per year pays in income tax more than 10 times than one on 20,000 a year for the same state services. Same “product”, different prices.»

        There is an important aside here: I was trying to describe how right-wing people perceive taxation.

        But their perception is *wrong*: it is not the same product that is being sold at different prices.

        Fixed or progressive percent income taxation includes not just state services but also extremely valuable insurance: that if one becomes too poor to pay for state services they can still receive them.

        In effect UK citizens are given a *lifetime* supply of state services, for which they are charged a “mortgage” which they can pay in instalments called “tax”, and the amount can vary, like a flexible monthly repayment mortgage, with their ability to repay.

        Consider the NHS: try to ask BUPA a quote for lifetime insurance, and a lender to loan you the amount but with repayment insurance in case you become unable to repay the full monthly instalment.

        Liked by 1 person

    2. “This was straight capital extraction from a public service into the purchase of votes”: council houses were always used for extraction of votes. Peter Mandelson’s grandfather boasted that he’d Build the Tories out of London i.e. that council houses with subsidised rents would guarantee Labour votes.

      (Council houses were also used, a friend of mine discovered while working in a town council housing department, to extract sexual favours from would-be tenants. That’s the sort of thing you get with rationing and subsidies.)

      Liked by 1 person

  3. > The Torygraph has quite a good …
    The graphics are taken from section 4 of the latest IFS green budget, which featured in last weeks Monevators weekend reading. IMO, this section [of the IFS green budget] gives a good description of the insidious nature of fiscal drag

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Although they credit it to George Osborne ISTR it was Nick Clegg’s crew that pushed for the large uplift in the personal allowance. They never got enough love for that. It assisted my ability to run the SIPP out mostly under the PA post retirement, over the years. The good news is that half of this seems still to exist

      Under the OBR’s forecast, the six-year freeze would, by 2027–28, reverse half (49%) of that enormous increase.

      from p 159 of that report

      It’s cuts in the percentage rate that gets the wingnuts excited, and what I don’t want to see. But I am also old enough to remember paying a lot more tax on my first paltry salary – that was too much IMO, and ramped up fast at the bottom end. Compared with then we are living in salad days on personal income taxation now

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    1. Well yes

      More generally, the pattern of asset returns in the modern era, as seen in the Ibbotson SBBI and other datasets that begin in 1926, emerges as distinctly different from what came before. Contrary to Siegel, the pattern of asset returns seen in the 20th century does not generalize to the 19th century. A regime perspective is introduced to make sense of the augmented historical record. It argues that both common stocks and long bonds are risk assets, capable of outperforming or underperforming over any human time horizon.

      Source

      in some ways the more important question is are we talking about the same thing when we talk about stocks and bonds in the 19th century 😉 Sure, theoretically the structure is the same, but scale and liquidity are hugely different now. I’m not sure it’s statistically valid to draw inferences for such a non-stationary sample!

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  4. A good post and a lot to think about.

    Have you read The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists?
    I couldn’t help but think about it when reading you post
    You can get a copy here https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3608.
    I think you would enjoy it.

    Also, I don’t think you should be paying any income tax on savings income. Like you I carry what is probably too much cash. However, I moved some of that cash (and even my premium bonds) into very short dated Gilts.
    I had a post previously over here about my buying TN24 ( https://simplelivingsomerset.wordpress.com/2023/07/07/cornwall-cogitations-on-travel-and-the-sinking-markets-in-pretty-much-everything/ )

    They are highly liquid and cash-like; you can sell them at any time in an emergency if you don’t want to hold them to maturity. You get a very small extra reward for that risk, but the real saving is in entirely legally minimising taxable income, since most of the return comes through capital gains and Gilts are CGT free.

    I can write up the details of how this works in full, if it helps?

    Liked by 2 people

    1. > I can write up the details of how this works in full, if it helps?

      I am clearly missing something here, so yes, more please. I can see TN24 on Hargreaves Lansdown (that’s a dear place to buy things, but indicates availability). I am puzzled as to the CGT free-ness and there aren’t any KPI docs or anything. I am clearly way out of my ken 😉

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  5. Ok, here goes, but it is a long comment!

    Let’s work with amounts of £100, for simplicities sake. Scale this up and down as you need to.
    Also, I assume you are are a basic rate tax payer that has exhausted your personal savings allowance of £1000.

    So, I have a Marcus savings account with cash in it. It pays 4.75% gross AER, so before tax I would expect to earn £4.75 on my savings of £100 with them, over the course of a year.

    (TN24 will mature on 31/1/2024, so I will use TN25 instead in my example, as it better explains how Gilt interest works. TN25 pays 0.25% interest, TN24 pays 0.125%) For this ‘trick’ to save you tax you just need to pick low yielding Gilts like these.

    So instead of leaving my £100 in my Marcus Account I head off to Hargreaves Lansdown and buy TN25 instead.
    Looking here: https://www.londonstockexchange.com/stock/TN25/united-kingdom/company-page
    you can see it’s closing offer price was 94.76 on 27/10/2023

    So, ignoring dealing fees my £100 would have bought £105.53 on nominal Gilt TN25. (Because £100 / 0.9476 = £105.53)

    You can’t completely ignore dealing fees, but they do decrease and become effectively negligible, if you deal in large enough amounts, or use you ‘free’ deals at somewhere like II.

    Your HL dealing account will show you have £105.53 of this stock when the deal has been done.

    On the 31/1/2025 the stock will disappear from your dealing account, when the Gilt is redeemed and £105.53 will pop up in your income account. Now here is the sweet part. This is pure capital gain and Gilts are CGT free so there is absolutely nothing to pay on this £5.53 profit. (Compare and contrast that with leaving it in a savings account.)

    It is actually better than that, because this Gilt yields 0.25%. So every year until redemption you will earn interest, which will be taxable. But the interest is 0.25% of the £105.53 nominal, which is £0.26 per year. (105.53 * 0.25%). This, 0.26%, is call the ‘Running yield’.
    The 26p in this case will be paid as 2 taxable dividends of 13p each on 31 January each and every year up to (and including) maturity.
    You will get the other 13p on each and every 31 July up to maturity.

    This explains why it was better to use TN25 as an example than TN24, since I could explain the dividends.

    If you have followed me so far you will have for TN25:
    paid out £100 on 27/10/2023
    received £0.13 interest on 31/1/24
    received £0.13 interest on 31/7/24
    and finally received £105.66 (i.e. £105.53 tax free, plus £0.13 interest) on 31/1/25 when it is finally redeemed.

    Now, you could work out how that compares to the savings account by firing up excel and computing it, but happily, these calculations can be down loaded free from here:
    https://reports.tradeweb.com/closing-prices/gilts/

    Download the conventional gilts prices from there. It is free to sign up. Look at TN25 and it shows it has a Gross Redemption Yield of 4.737862%
    The GRY is more or less the same as the Annual Equivalent Rate on savings. (It does assume that the interest rate remains constant and hence the dividends are re-invested at the same rate as the yield.)

    If you held it to maturity, you would be locked into this yield for the duration. This could be good or bad. If Marcus increased their rates on my savings account substantially, I would loose out in comparison, but equally I would be even better off if they cut them. Compared to the last 15 years 4.7% is really good!

    There is the opportunity to lock in long term yields if interest rates start to fall. As always, calling the peak in interest rates is a fools errand, but they are possibly near the top now (maybe?) before falling in 2024/2025.

    You would pay 20% tax on the interest. 20% on 26p per year is 5p tax per year. (This is a lot less tax than you would pay each than on a savings account. (20% of £4.75 with Marcus is 95p tax per year)

    You could sell the Gilt before maturity, but what you get will depend on the day. However, the close they get to maturity the closer gilt prices get to par ( £100 nominal) . So you are relatively safe with short duration gilts.

    So, in summary, just move as much money as you need to out of your savings accountand premium bonds and into low nominal yield short dated gilts (TN24, TN25, T26 and TN28) until you reduce your taxable income to below the personal savings account threshold.

    Anyway, let me know if this makes sense so far. I am sure there are a few other things I ought to mention, but that is the basics of it. I need a cup of tea!

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    1. Thanks! Only started digesting, but I wanted to substantiate the free from CGT that is critical to this, and there is a list on gov.uk which confirms this

      This list shows the titles of gilt-edged securities which have a redemption date on or after 1 January 1992, disposals of which are exempt from tax on chargeable gains under section 115 of the Taxation of Chargeable Gains Act 1992.

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  6. Yes, Gilts purchased directly are free of CGT, but a Gilt fund or ETF is not CGT free! Nobody should be buying funds or ETF’s in a taxable investments account. (And probably not in a tax favoured account either. Who wants to pay an AMC, however small, when, if you buy them directly you don’t even pay that.)

    This little wheeze is only avaiable, because interest rates were rock bottom over the last 15 years and the government could issue Gilts at these very low nominal yields.

    The rise in interest rates the last year or so is what has made these Gilts interesting. Look at the price TN28 was trading at. It was at over 100 just after issue when rates were so low and investors would accept 0.125% returns. It fell to 92 before Liz Truss got in, then she and Kwasai took the price down to £80! It is back up to £84, but you would have taken a real kicking if you had bough back when the price was £100. This is why Gilts have done badly of late, but looking forward they seem so much more attractive now.

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  7. I hold a load of short dated gilts for the reasons set out above. The risk is if you need the cash in the ST and the gilt price has fallen. Hold to maturity and of course you will be redeemed at par. Gilts at long last look good value again. Index linked Gilts are also interesting – Google Yield Gimp for more info here.

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    1. Thanks @SeekingFire. I hadn’t heard of that website, it looks useful. I hadn’t ever bothered with Index Linked Gilts, because I have some IL Nat Savings Certs. Although I am only getting CPI +0.01% on them. IGL’s are starting to look attractive too!

      @Ermine, the last thing I think I ought to mention is that Gilt prices have 2 parts:
      (i) the underlying price of the bond itself, which is the ‘Clean Price’.
      And (ii) the interest accruing until it is paid out. Gilts normally go Ex-Dividend 7 days prior to their distribution dates. (Very similar to a share or ETF going XD).
      The ‘Dirty Price’ is the underlying price of the Gilt, plus the accrued interest.

      Prior to 1986, the distinction between clean and dirty price was not made, so investors indulged in what was know as ‘bond washing’. The would sell the Gilt prior to it going XD, which meant the accrued interest was taken as a capital gain. (All £0.13 of it in my TN25 example! – but would be worth it if dealing in large amounts.) And they would then buy the gilt back afterwards. Rinse and repeat and all the dividends would be tax free too.

      Anyway, the accrued interest is split out these days and is account for separately, to stop this bond washing wheeze, you will see it separately on your contract note you need to declare it on your tax return.

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