a summer of discontent, life after growth and soul loss

The dog days of summer drag on, we had the rioting in a minor way last month. Strangely muted compare to the summer of discontent ten years ago, Blackberry Messenger was a more effective spreader of sedition compared with TikTok, or perhaps we just got lucky this time. The greens of some of the leaves are turning brown, but this septic isle seems not to be a happy place, despite the sunlit uplands promised a few years ago and a late summer of, er, summery weather.

Compared with the mendacious clown and the mad cow dear Rish! seems to try hard, but I’ll leave it to the irascible Dominic Cummings to summarise the result – cascading clusterfucks. The air traffic control screw-up, apparently a failure to sanitise user input, the concrete lumps falling off public buildings which has been known about for decades, the inability to stop small boats while claiming the plan is working – in the words of Our Dom government is broken because the people aren’t up to it. I think he means the people in government, Dom’s not always charitable to the masses, despite his shtick.

Dom’s a nutter, but the Tory Lord Aschroft’s latest State of the union address says the same thing in a different way

After 13 years of Conservative government, things were not supposed to look like this. Strikes, inflation, record NHS waiting lists, a sluggish Economy…

Let’s hear it from another Tory minister, from when we saw this movie last time, hello Norman ‘green shoots’ Lamont in his valedictory transmission on the 9th June 1993

There is something wrong with the way in which we make our decisions. […] We give the impression of being in office but not in power. Far too many important decisions are made for 36 hours’ publicity. Yes, we are politicians as well as policy-makers ; but we are also the trustees of the nation. I believe that in politics one should decide what is right and then decide the presentation, not the other way round. Unless this approach is changed, the Government will not survive, and will not deserve to survive.

Ouch. That was thirty years ago, plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose

This is how Tory governments die, strangled by self-serving and internal inconsistencies. It’s really hard to conceive of one of the current crew saying

we are also the trustees of the nation

because populism destroys character. We should, however, fear the strength of character that follows, as the force is harnessed by those more competent who watched and learned from the failures of the first generation of populists. Perhaps there’s just something about the thirties of a century and bad moons rising. Something is rotten in the Kingdom.

Life After Growth

It looks much like Tim Morgan’s Project Armageddon: Life after Growth. I’m sure Bozza would say that was written by doomsters and gloomsters, but let’s face it: Tim Morgan’s predictions from nearly 10 years ago seems to be a lot more on the money than anything spewed from Bozza’s mendacious trap. Tim the Doomster quoth thusly

This person is most of us, and his or her life is already being affected profoundly by the processes described in this book. Over the last decade, his pay has increased, and may even have risen by more than the official amount of inflation, but he does not feel better off. The prices of many things that he has to buy (such as electricity, gas, food and petrol) have gone up by a lot more than his wage packet. It is a fair bet, too, that the various departments of government, no less than utilities, are taking a far bigger bite out of his income than used to be the case.

If his employer provides a pension scheme, its real value has probably fallen. If he has saved for retirement, the income that he can expect to enjoy is far less than seemed likely until a few years ago. If he expects to rely on a state pension, he wonders whether it will really keep pace with the soaring cost of essentials.

Despite the squeeze on his disposable income, he is subjected to seemingly continuous commercial pressure to spend. If he has children, it is likely that peer pressure is fuelling ever greater demands for new gadgets. If he is a young person (between, say, 16 and 30), he faces the additional problems of scarce, costly accommodation and a lack of well-paid jobs. Whoever he is, he quite probably has far more debt (including mortgages and credit) than he had ten years ago.

My younger self optimistically thought this didn’t ring true in some places, but a look at recent headlines on the cost of living crisis is all with our Tim. The one thing that’s a miss for me is

the various departments of government, no less than utilities, are taking a far bigger bite out of his income than used to be the case.

but that’s largely because my income has fallen compared to my employed self, and I have favoured capital. There’s disaffection in the dog days, all the way from the ennui of the lastminute.com parents travelling on the busiest day of the year, through to what looks to me like quite serious destitution in some quarters. Hoovervilles are on the rise, somewhere a young Steinbeck is perhaps writing the first lines of a 21st century Grapes of Wrath.

I switched off Everything Everywhere All At Once after 10 minutes because I got bored, it seemed to resonate with many people’s experience of life. I initially thought this article was written by AI because it had that sort of intro, but changed my mind about that as I got halfway down. Not enough to try and watch the movie again, but it speaks to a certain anomie that is increasingly widespread.

of Soul loss

There are ebbs and flows in any human life, but the sense of detachment trending towards anomie seems to be amplified with the whole late-stage capitalism thing. The cynicism of the Tinder ad

Realising you’re not dead inside

seems to be reflected in this 30-something Guardianista’s wistful reflection on the problem of finding a relationship, I am assuming she’s in London, because everyone that matters is 😉 Anthropologist Anna Machin tells us

“They [dating apps] promised ease in relationships but in many cases they have made things harder and more complicated. They handicap our brain, which has not evolved to select a partner at a distance. We are supposed to be in the room [with people].”

I’m not clever enough to know if that’s the case. Once upon a time they said the human body would fall apart at the high speeds of trains above 30mph, but we all sort of got used to it without too many ill-effects.

The real wisdom, bizarrely, comes from Susan Miller, Juliana’s astrologer, who shows a remarkable grasp of her clients’ human condition

Younger people who graduated college after the financial crash and 11 years later experienced the pandemic think that the world is a terribly dangerous place.

Women in particular. It’s not as dangerous as they think it is, but when someone believes they are in an uncontrollable environment, they want more control, and that includes securing the perfect husband or the perfect partner

I was tickled to read this story of a behaviourist’s detestation of that dealer in metaphor Carl Jung; as time has passed I have concluded that Jung’s approach has a greater resonance for those who draw power from the inner worlds and less so for the extroverts of the world. Since it is the latter that make all the running it is surprising he’s still known about. In the summary of This Jungian Life podcast:

For Jung, the soul carries creativity and grants meaning; it links us to the divine and represents all we could be if wholeness were possible.

Oddly enough one of the things made harder by the trend of consumerist materialism towards ‘because you’re worth it’ solipsism was probably retirement, in the time since I left work I have seen an increasing number of my peer group retire, and it would seem that more than half have a dislocation/disorientation with the loss of meaning due to ceasing work. That work is one of the remaining things outside ourselves that is imbued with ‘meaning’ is an odd critique of how the other things that used to give people meaning have been run out of town or devalued.

Jung’s description of shamanic practitioners calling this soul loss seems to be borne out by the big G, though there’s much weird shit too. In the end only you can find your way back to your true self, if you’re paying for it1, particularly over t’internet, you’re doing it wrong IMO.

There is commonality in some of the descriptions of the symptoms between the shamanistic reports of soul loss and what often now falls under the catch-all ‘mental health problems’. A feeling of dissociation, due to difficulty in adapting or dealing with situations outside your control that affect your life. Depression, addictions and substance abuse, often in an attempt to outrun the negative feelings. I drank too much in the three years of saving to get out too. Losing touch with the feeling centres to get things done is a form of dissociation. It’s tough doing it over years rather than hours.

I struggle a bit with lonerwolf’s article, largely on the sales pitch, individuation 2 is something you have to do yourself, the clue is in the name, but the taxonomy is good, and indeed the psychology isn’t a bad summary. At a high level, it’s the problem of the human condition referred to in  Yeats’ poem; the falcon can no longer hear the falconer3, and the personality may shatter into multiple conflicting elements. A lot of human life is the delicate balance between opposites, and if any of these are repressed, then the unexpressed elements will find a way out. If someone looks back at a display of uncharacteristic behaviour they may say “I don’t know what possessed me”.  It’s often one of the repudiated aspects finding its way out.

I was fortunate enough to dodge the end of work soul loss. Maybe it was made easier for me because FI was escape from an increasingly bad situation and I had three years of acclimatising while saving enough to get out, or perhaps I am just odd that way. I’ve known people who shared the view that the world is full of interesting nooks and crannies that you can poke an inquisitive snout into, but prefer structure to their inquiry. I am more with Peter Thiel here, insulting his hosts at Yale

Most people who really care about learning are autodidacts.

Retirement is an opportunity to do this. Bigtime.

Some retire into vicariously living through their children/grandchildren. It’s great that this works for them, but 10 minutes is enough for bystanders hearing about the grandkids, unless these kids are really doing something groundbreaking, or your conversation partner elicits more 😉

Ten years ago I took the line that retirement may be easier for introverts. It is possible I underestimated how far down that line you have to be. Even six years ago I missed the trick. The change to retirement is harder than I thought it was, on reflection, even if it wasn’t that hard for me.

The loss of soul applies to the West in general, it’s not really that sure what it stands for or finds meaningful. There is less of a shared narrative now about what constitutes the legitimate use of power, which does make collective action more difficult. We should be careful what we wish for here, Genghis Khan and Kim Jong knew what they stood for and found meaningful 😉 Dominic Cummings knows what he wants, and co-opted useful idiots to his vision. Still, doomsters and gloomsters be damned, eh, here’s some good news

Humanity is on the brink of major scientific breakthroughs, but nobody seems to care

This ode to a lost world of a great future that awaits us forged in the white heat of technology is remarkable for being current, rather than Harold Wilson’s rhetoric just as Britain gave up spaceflight in the 1960s

Why the indifference, we wonder? The author is of the view that scientists aren’t selling their ideas/discoveries/stuff to the rest of us with enough vigour. Excuse me – you notice a world-changing discovery because it changes the world 😉 Was a time when people used big pieces of paper to navigate the world around them, now they use their iPhones, occasionally missing the lamppost or your good self in front of them and getting stuck up mountains when the battery/signal fails them in their hour of need, but most of the time it Just Works. The world was changed by the smartphone. It was changed more by electricity, and by the motor car. What are these major breakthroughs you speak of then?

These include artificial intelligence, room-temperature superconductors, and nuclear fusion.

Hmm. I was reading about the last two of those when I was a kid. It’s still true that the easiest way to use nuclear fusion is to stick up a solar panel, though growing a tree or field of wheat or pasture for cows works tolerably well. The big problem with nuclear fusion on Earth is keeping the rest of the world out of the action, because it has to be very very hot for the action to happen, and heat always wants to get out, with a vim proportional to the temperature difference. While it’s possible that the reaction might scale, after all there’s a Universe full of prior art, maintaining a large volume of controlled temperature difference on earth is always going to be a tough engineering challenge that doesn’t scale easily. This is a second-order effect, it’s a little bit like the reason flying cars aren’t as commonplace as they thought they would be in the 1950s.

We wanted flying cars, instead we got 140 characters.

Peter Thiel

Peter Thiel missed the point: it’s a lot easier to scale 140 characters. This is a general problem tech bros have with the real world, they can’t get why it’s doesn’t act like software. People have made flying cars, but the engineering requirements of making a good car don’t make a great aeroplane, and vice versa. The economics are crap as a result. Your flying car will be a gas guzzler making a Hummer look like Greta Thunberg’s dream ride, a bear to park in a tight space and its fuel economy as a plane will suck bigly.

Reports of room temperature superconductors always fall into Pauli’s ‘not even wrong‘ category. Since you can tell a superconductor by floating it on top of a magnet due to the Meissner effect the standard of university labwork has clearly deteriorated from what it was, as the room temperature demonstration of that effect with media rolling tape or whatever they do now would be a wowser of a press conference4.

It’s not that surprising that people treat breathless PR flacks’ reports of amazing world-changing scientific discoveries with a meh – most of them are kites flown to get funding. If you believed everything trailed by the Independent’s tech news then you’ll be sorely disappointed and be flummoxed by the fact that we use more coal now than we ever used to, nearly twice as much as we did in the 1990s. That’s not to say renewables aren’t decarbonising electricity, they are.

Greenhouse Gas Emissions from Energy Data Explorer – Data Tools – IEA The top gree trace is electricity generation and the next trace down (blue) is the CO2 emitted in making that happen. All traces normalised to 2000=100. Select the power generation tab in the linked IEA page.

It’s just that more people are using more electricity, and that’s beating out the decarbonisation progress.

It’s OK for the unlucky in love’s Guardianistas to retreat into chopra-ism but less so for what passes as science. RetractionWatch really shouldn’t be as big as it is, but when you make publication people’s KPIs, then is it really such a surprise? It’s all part of capitalism’s Oscar Wilde problem – knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing. Still, there’s a silver bullet that can fix all this mess.

e/acc to the rescue

Marc Andreesen, he of Netscape Navigator5 fame is of the view that we ceased/outlawed technological innovation in non-virtual domains the 1970s, which is why growth has ceased outside the world of bits. I sort of see his point in the neophobia regarding nuclear power, though his neophilia for a world with 20 billion people is one I am glad I will never see. It is remarkable that tech bros seem to have a thing about rejecting real-world limits, calling it effective accerelationism which has its own acronym e/acc. It sounds like religion, indeed dare I say it, chopra-ism –

The universe wants us to be alive
The universe wants us to become more sophisticated
The universe wants us to replicate
The universe feeds us unlimited amounts of energy and raw materials with which to do that
Yes, we dump entropy out the other side, but we get structure and life to basically compensate for that.

The world according to Marc. The quote is from 48 mins in if your mobile borks the vid.

The incredible cornucopia of life as a tech bro, eh? Bet there are no food banks, rough sleepers or shit in the rivers6 in this utopia. Bless. And all so terrifically consequence-free and invulnerable to disproof. If you have a problem with that, then AI will fix it in post.

Indian Summer compensations

To swell the gourd, and plump the hazel shells  With a sweet kernel

There are compensations for the turning of the year, it’s not quite the mists and mellow fruitfulness of Keats’ poem . Mrs Ermine scored these hazelnuts before the skwerls, it appears there are more nuts than can be turned into squirrelmeat. I have never seen cobnuts in Blighty before7, because the grey tree-rats have at ’em first. Researching further, they apparently are a thing in Kent, and while the skwerls are a problem, the big thing my younger self failed to realise is you are meant to pick ’em green, d’oh.

Pick ’em green, they say in Kent. I didn’t know that. No wonder the bloody skwerlz had at ’em before they got to the stage I think of as ripe.

  1. I haven’t got a down on therapy in general, particularly in a clinical setting. But there are an awful lot of untrained/unaccredited folk flogging services in this space, and I would say from the results that they fuck people up, sometimes projecting their own traumas onto their clients. I can see the attraction of the story of the wounded healer. Claire Dunne titled her biography of Jung Wounded Healer of the Soul 
  2. to be fair to lonerwolf, they don’t call it individuation, I translated that into the Jungian term, but there’s much commonality in what they term the spiritual journey and individuation 
  3. Yeats’s poem applied this at a societal level, his philosophy described in A Vision (1925)  applied the concept of cycles and gyres at the macro level as well as to the individual 
  4. Note to press hacks – do check under the table for wires, as you can make an active Meissner effect with electromagnets and sensors. 
  5. the first browser usable by ordinary people, rather than geeks 
  6. Maybe the US doesn’t have shit in its rivers due to a strong EPA, though given Marc’s view on such things the Galt’s Gulch he’s proposing probably won’t have that sort of thing either. Gets in the way of progress/acceleration, y’know 
  7. There are a hell of a lot more hazel trees along the rhynes in Somerset than there were hazels in Suffolk where I used to live, so there’s some element of sample bias here 

114 thoughts on “a summer of discontent, life after growth and soul loss”

  1. Retirement possibly being given a harsher rap here than it deserves? Maybe it’s just a marker? Post hoc ergo propter hoc and all that… A lot else is happening at the age most people retire: the physical decline is kicking in (hearing, sight, joints, etc) and possibly cognitive decline; it’s roughly the point at which death begins to swim into view as rather more than a distant abstraction; you become increasingly invisible and irrelevant. As you point out, if you don’t have interesting stuff to do, goals, ennui and depression can kick in. For many it’s a lot to handle, and a much tougher gig than they may have been expecting. Similar to you, I’ve found the only way to go at this stage is inwards.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. I hear the charge of correlation =/= causation but the sample aren’t manual workers retiring at 65, typically mid 50s to 60 white collar workers. Some adapt well, but I would say most seem to feel challenge.

      I wonder if I was fortunate(!) in that I had an imperative to go. I spent some of the early years on here snarling about this Calvinist work fetish. I’m not sure if I was trying to convince myself, but I didn’t experience the mourning period, though the decompression period lasted longer than I expected, about two years.

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      1. “mid 50s to 60 white collar workers”

        Yep, this describes my ‘retirement’. Nearly ten years on I’m still quite reticent about describing myself as retired. Don’t want to finally slam the door I suppose. Or admit I’m getting on a bit 😉

        I stopped working because (contract) work dried up and in my late fifties I couldn’t be bothered trying to fire up another line of work. I was just about solvent enough not to have to. Apart from a bit of very diffused and short-lived guilt not working didn’t trouble me at all. One side effect which I noticed was that since then I never think about my working life, not at all. In the scheme of things I had quite a reasonable time of work but I’ve come to read this as never really being sold on what I was doing (teaching then IT).

        I would from my own experience strongly agree with you that it’s important to motivate yourself to do stuff. In the past two or three years I let the momentum die down a bit, and I’ve noticed some background existential dread kicking in. Now got it in hand again, but it’s important to keep going I think. Tennyson nailed it:

        We are not now that strength which in old days
        Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
        One equal temper of heroic hearts,
        Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
        To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

        Liked by 1 person

  2. Fab post.
    My own experience is that the malaise is not limited to the UK. So whilst our national circumstances definitely contribute they may not be the root cause!
    FWIW, I personally think the UK mainstream press (in all forms e.g. print, TV, online, etc) have a lot to answer for as IMO these days events are either grossly over-reported (seemingly either catastrophic or prematurely life changing with nowt in between) or just ignored totally.
    In reality, I strongly suspect there has never been a better time to be alive in the UK – but sometimes it can hard to feel this.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. > I strongly suspect there has never been a better time to be alive in the UK

      In, probably, our circumstances, agreed. Not sure if that is the case for the young, and being poor seems a harsher life than it was. My recollection of the six months I spent unemployed at the start of my working life was of a system that had far more compassion and none of the punitive crap that seems to be part of the unemployment welfare system now. And that was Thatcher’s Britain in 1982 😉

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      1. It is a great building; however, the design is far superior to the finish of the build and although only c. 5 years old it is starting to look tatty in places.
        We went once before (in a December IIRC) but it was closed as the hi-tech heating system had broken down a couple of days previously.
        The breakfast is OK – not outstanding; but their Lincs sausages were very good.
        They do occasional sunrise breakfast’s – but I understand that tickets are hard to get as there is limited seating; but certainly somewhere to bear in mind if you are ever in the area.

        Another interesting, and new, ‘thing’ in the vicinity is the 17m coastal monitoring tower at nearby Anderby Creek, see e.g. https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2023/01/lincolnshire-coast-radar-masts-planned-to-monitor-climate-change/

        Liked by 1 person

      2. > only c. 5 years old it is starting to look tatty in places.

        The sea is a harsh mistress, though, and the east winds bring in the salt spray. It looks like a bit too rinky-dink compared to, say a good honest Victorian pier or even a Cold War coastguard station or an old lookout station

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      3. Indeed. It is a bit, I would say, stylish – a bit like a scaled back Sydney Opera House. But probably no RAAC! I am familiar with corrosive nature of the naval/maritime environment. But sadly it is the internal finish that seems to be going quickest. Leaky taps, warped doors, and all the other usual markers of cost-cutting. Time will tell how the external cladding holds up – but provided it is pukka wood looked after properly it should be OK – after all wooden boats were all the rage for a good while.

        BTW, the sensor at Anderby Creek, etc may be from Marlan, see: https://marlan-tech.co.uk/

        Liked by 1 person

      4. > Leaky taps

        Ah, good old East Anglian water. Dunno where they get it from, but I had endless plumbing grief until I installed an under the sink water softener. The cartridge gizmos were a waste of time and the mag device pure (and ineffective) voodoo. Curiously the water here tastes better but doesn’t cause that amount of pain, though I have just written off a coffee machine so perhaps there are issues. Anyway, never fit ceramic insert taps in a hard water area, They work a dream till they crunch some chalk, then you get to spend a lot more than a tap washer to change the insert.

        At least is the indoor decor is taking that sort of stick they are getting a decent footfall, which should be good for the bottom line. At work I did a project with some hotels – they took wear in six months that I’d expect well over ten years at home 😉

        Kinda tempted to have a gander, I may be over that neck of the woods in a few weeks. Marlan’s coastsense rig looks neat, 1953 still lies heavy on East Anglia. Although it was dreadful there, it was horrific in Holland 😦

        It was disappointing that they stood down the audio flood warning sirens, ‘cos as any fule kno every bugger has a mobile fone at all times. The French seem less sanguine on that

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      5. If you are over that way I would say it is worth a look. But be aware there are a lot of (generally well behaved) dogs too at the Lincs coast.
        Personally, I actually really like Anderby Creek as a beech. There is not much there, but do you really need much more than a big sky (weather permitting), a sandy beech, a cheap car park, a public toilet, an Edwardian (IIRC) post box, and a very good cafe – no lobster, but more than acceptable burgers, etc. IMO, the Lincs coast has far more to offer than Skegness and Ingoldmells.
        One other thing that struck me in the whole area is the prevalence of unusual road signs, such as those with “ER” in a red box. They apparently mark the emergency evacuation route to be used in the event of a flood – so they are not just relying on mobiles. Can you work out what those that say Viking Link mean?
        Other places worth a gander in that area are RAF Waddington (home of the AWACs and a magnet for plane spotters), RAF Coningsby – which as well as being an active Typhoon station houses the battle of Britain memorial flight, and the Lincoln Aviation Heritage Centre. Horncastle is there if you like antique shops; and Louth for foodies. Lincoln Cathedral is pretty epic too, but IMO avoid the Xmas market in Lincoln.
        Lastly, I doubt there are any “stones” thereabouts as the whole area was relatively recently recovered from the sea!

        Liked by 1 person

      6. > Can you work out what those that say Viking Link mean?

        GIMF https://www.viking-link.com/ and a mappy sort of thing indicates it terminates thereabouts. That is ‘king cool, particularly as it appears we CBA* to do wind power, so importing it from people who do is maybe second-best.

        * in a nod to your critique of the Chicken Little press, I’m sure someone will sort it out in time 😉

        > Lastly, I doubt there are any “stones” thereabouts as the whole area was relatively recently recovered from the sea!

        Yeah, that was part of the reason for a move westwards. No stone circles east of a line between the rather magnificent Rudston monolith (not part of a circle) and Rollright in Oxfordshire. You do get isolated dolmens like Kits Coty in Kent. There were timber circles like Arminghall in Norfolk, but archaeological excavation destroys the evidence, it’s a one-shot process and there’s nothing to see afterwards

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      7. It is a bit of a double irony as: a) there are already a lot of wind farms off the Lincs coast and b) the Viking link project has been going for a few years now too. BTW, I had no idea that that amount of DC power was carried by underwater cables before I read up on the interconnector a year or two back.

        Also, I should point out that the last UK AWACs flight was just over two years ago.
        We sold some of them to Chile.
        The replacement capability (delayed, of course, until at least 2024) is the Boeing E-7A Wedgetail, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_AEW%26C

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  3. I used to be more in the camp that I’d end work as soon as possible. I did a six-month sabbatical in 2020, during lockdown, which was rather pleasant. Lockdown minimized human interaction.

    I’m currently 5 months into a nine-month period of gardening leave and it’s been rather shit. I’ve played all the computer games, painted all my miniatures. I’m so bored that I even did some gardening and I ffing hate gardening. The family has been on four holidays, but I gave up after two. Going to school plays I don’t give a s**t about. Having to make small talk with people I don’t want to talk to. Being cut off from the continous datastream is like having my arms cut off. I’m clearly a data addict. Life away form work just seems full of triviality.

    In my job, I only interact with people who don’t do small talk. I have excuses not to go on holiday and not to go anywhere near school plays. I can consume as much data as I like. There is less focus on trivial crap.

    Work is shit but it’s clear now that retirement could be even shittier.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Yes work is shit – and it is very easy for retirement to be even shittier if you don’t plan ahead CAREFULLY what you’re going to do with all this new free time. Young offenders who were happy to be banged up as it gave them all day to exercise were soon put straight by an old lag. He said to them “How many pushups do you think you can do? How many situps? Not many, my man, not many. And then what are you going to do with the other 23 hours of your day?” If you don’t plan it carefully, retirement can be rather like the young offenders’ rude awakening.

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    2. The perennial question, how to live well, eh? Perhaps the questions to as yourself are what essentially was the difference between the sabbatical and your current experience. If the feeling of being plugged in is a key thing you value, then it is important to know, and maybe to ask what can replace that afterwards.

      The Covid experience was a strange one. I realised that I am much more of an island than others, and also that others need interaction a lot more and at an existential level, something that I had never observed – because the experiment hadn’t been run in my lifetime till then.

      One observation though – in retirement create as well as consume. I read somewhere that achieving mastery and being in flow states are a key part of reward for people, particularly with a tendency to the intellectual, although it applies in other walks of life too – mastering a musical instrument, sports for instance. Your list was perhaps light on that sort of thing, it might be an avenue to explore before retiring. Part of the problem for people with high-pressure jobs is that work can make life less balanced, which amplifies the transition between working and not working. It is important to build hinterland while working IMO.

      > Going to school plays I don’t give a s**t about. Having to make small talk with people I don’t want to talk to.

      I feel for you. I don’t think I have ever met anyone who enjoyed school plays, but yeah. Avoid people who just flap their lips for the sake of it. Even if you have to wait till your kids are of age to be able to get away with it 😉

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      1. The problem is my idea of retirement is me, my family and a cave. A very well appointed cave with all the mod cons but a cave nonetheless. It doesn’t really involve the rest of society. Unfortunately, the other half actually likes people.

        It doesn’t help that with my kids labelled “neuro-divergent”, I also got that label. Labels don’t change anything but if I was stubborn about not conforming with society before, I’m even more bloody minded now. Or perhaps it’s just my age making me even more grumpy.

        The one advantage of work is that the sample of people I’m forced to interact with are more skewed in my direction. I find broader society just exasperating and the feeling is mutual. I’ve observed a number of my older colleagues who retired came back after a number of years (3-5 typically). Those who did not come back, always developed a major passion for something else. I think monomania is common in my area, so you need to replace work with something else that can sate that.

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    3. Good job you discovered this now rather than assuming your lockdown experience would read across!

      I had a period between jobs in my late forties and made the opposite discovery albeit I had not got ‘enough’ back then to safely jump ship. So I took some time out (a late, late extended gap year if you like) before returning to work. I then quit for good (I think) some years later once I had ‘enough’ and a suitable opportunity presented itself.

      Things may change again for you, but in any case I just cannot see the attraction of working forever. Having said that, I do know people who have worked (as employees) into their seventies and people who really struggled to give up their own business that they built from scratch. Horses for courses, I guess.

      A key Q to ask yourself might just be would you do it for no pay at all? I used to work with an Exec who was convinced that a lot of folks (given the correct other ‘hygiene factors’) would effectively work for free.

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      1. Work for no pay? Are you kidding? I’m only taking 9 months off because I have a non-compete and the next place is paying me 125% of 2022 comp upfront to join. I won’t even not work for no pay, never mind work for no pay.

        Honestly, though, people just think that because you are off work that you will have time for their requests. Like having the time to do something means I would want to do somethng. Some of these requests involve more work than my actual job. All for free. It’s absolutely risible.

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      2. > Work for no pay? Are you kidding?
        Well there’s your answer; I suspect when the time comes you will have no problem in walking away from work. Joking apart, I have seen a life limited friend really struggle to walk away!

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      3. > I have seen a life limited friend really struggle to walk away!

        After a decade of snarling frequently and at length that work is overrated as a source of meaning, I am coming round to the view that there are some folk who should never retire, the meaning through work disease is harder to cure than I had thought. Although there are signs that the ermine Calvinist watch campaign is getting somewhere in the population at large, maybe it’s a marathon, not a sprint.

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      4. And my friend in his seventies has just gone back to work PT [as a freelancer] at his former employer. Managed just six months of retirement! The pay rate is good, but not exceptional and seems to be genuinely looking forward to the work. What can I say?

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  4. I retired at age 56, I am currently 69. My Mum and Dad (who had me VERY late, and so were OLD when I was in my teens) used to say “It takes guts to hold down a job”, something I fully concur with. However, a wisdom they did not divulge was “It takes guts to deal with getting old”, maybe they thought it was too early to throw me that particular pearl of wisdom.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. “Growing old is not for sissies.” Attributed to Bette Davis. Or Ben Franklin, Abe Lincoln, Albert Einstein, … Unusually, not attributed to “the Good Book”.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Interesting post, interesting replies.

    I too have been wrestling with the work is shit but not working also potentially shit conundrum.

    I can imagine if you were good at your job it would be even harder square to the circle.

    I’m not very good at work though as I’m not particularly extrinsically motivated. Status, power of no interest, find that all a bit tawdry. I take no pleasure in the ‘game’ either, i.e trying to win at the corporate carry on. I’m now also completely sick of sitting in front of a screen all day. All adds up to me not being the ideal employee and finding it incredibly hard to be focused/productive.

    The work environment also causes me undue amounts of anxiety now after events of past the years where jobs have been turbulent. I’ve suffered social anxiety since my teens but my brain has now seen fit to link that anxiety trait to work as well after a series of unpleasant work related incidents. I don’t really sleep properly any more.

    But having a family brings with it strong feelings of responsibility and jacking it all in is a very contrarian thing to do, I don’t think I’ve sold the concept very well to my better half. I’m not actually sure it’s possible to do so.

    But to counterbalance that I almost certainly have enough to take that route, almost 50% surplus or so on my outgoings from notional passive income.

    It’s a right old dilemma.

    Hopefully I’ll wake up brave one morning and do the right thing?

    I don’t think being neuro divergent is my issue, more anxiety/guilt weighing heavily over things. I do wonder what sort of role model I’d be providing to the kids if I did quit it all?

    The other option is to start doing something else job wise but completely different. But starting again from scratch is hard when you’re well past forty..

    If someone out there can solve all my problems then please do get in touch 😂

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I feel your pain Rhino. I was in a similar position – then the place I worked for, offered early severance for Admin staff. I wasn’t Admin but I put in for it anyway. I received the 7-page document to fill in and and I was getting more and more depressed as I read it through, as there wasn’t a question that would seemingly get me out of there. Then, almost as a gift from God, there it was, right near the end. “Why is this a good time for you to receive early severance?” Well I can’t tell you what I wrote in there, but suffice to say I was the only non-Admin member of staff to get the early severance. So I got out of the s**t hole at age 56, which is more than a blessing, as I would definitely not made 60 if I’d had to carry on there. I am now 69 and enjoying every day of my well-earned holiday.

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    2. I do wonder what sort of role model I’d be providing to the kids if I did quit it all?

      Successful investor?
      Self made man?
      One who hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.

      All good and noble examples of self-reliance, the qualities listed on the 1963 ad A Man with Savings – “The Pleasure of Walking Tall

      Chin up. You don’t have to buy into or express the Calvinist work is good for you. For sure, raise your kids to pay their way but there are better ways than 40 years with The Man 😉

      > I don’t think I’ve sold the concept very well to my better half. I’m not actually sure it’s possible to do so

      Now that is a more intractable problem than being a good example to your kids by reframing the work narrative!

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    3. Long ago, my GP recommended to all his patients that we take up angling. Perfect for the soul, he said.

      Maybe he was right; a wee trudge, sit yourself down in the heather, munch a sandwich, have a cuppa, stand up, and wade out ready to see whether you can outwit a fish.

      I think a summer’s day that would suit me now would be to take my pipe (I’d have to find it after all these years), and my last tin of Balkan Sobranie, and sit down to watch a village cricket match, accompanied by plenty of beer of the delicious alcohol-free types now available. Ideally I’d be under a tree looking out at the sunshine. And inevitably I’d have to be handy for a loo.

      If my back would allow I would – and there’s the thing: soon enough there’s lots you might like to do but plain can’t. So I’d say seize the chance in your sixties and late fifties to do anything you enjoy that takes a bit of exertion. I had a cousin who was a school teacher: she loved to spend her summer hols on archaeological digs. She carried on for some years after retirement.

      There’s a useful division of labour, she said, among the volunteers: the younger can do the heavy digging and the older take part in the trowel work, where patience and experience are a boon. But I suppose you need working knees.

      Liked by 2 people

  7. For the record, I’ve never been on Tinder. I have used two other dating apps, but they didn’t work for me. I know two married couples who met online, but I just couldn’t swing it for some reason. I was looking for a mate and instead I kept being matched with sexed up gold diggers (so where do you live, ok, so are you renting…?) and assorted others… I’d say dating app algorithms need work. Or at least they did 4 years ago. Except for one (memorable) instance where after 3 (good) dates the other party pulled out on account of “getting serious with somebody else”. That was quite disappointing because (A) I wanted to go on date no. 4 and (B) you know you’ve finally come across spouse material, when, having shagged somebody else, they feed I would be inappropriate to keep seeing other people.
    Granted, Bill Maher is often an ass, but I think he’s right on the subject of online dating.

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    1. I’ve never been on tinder either but get almost daily matches via email, so maybe someone set me up to try to be helpful. I do find it a bit too persistent pushing for bank details though, so I haven’t engaged at all 🙂

      A very techie friend is hugely disappointed though, he says the platforms are quite duplicitous in their methodology to milk the paying members while disguising for as long as possible that their odds for a match are quite poor for several reasons. (just one is the ratio of female to male, 1: 10 ?, even before you get to the concentrating effect for toxic personalities who unsurprisingly are always available)

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  8. An interesting read and links as ever.

    >> I was fortunate enough to dodge the end of work soul loss

    I’m retired a little over 2 years now. I couldn’t say I find retirement regrettable in any way compared to the world of work which was becoming increasingly unbearable with layers of management and corporate time wasting fluff.

    I wanted to retire at 55 and some people at work (HR, colleagues) told me I was throwing away my life / career. My father retired at 60 and I don’t think he lived out 2 years of that before the grim chap with the scythe came a-calling. Things like this focus the mind on the running down of the life-timer. I ended up working part time a couple more years then took the redundancy offered during the days of COVID.

    I think you’re right that folks with an intellectual bent maybe leaning towards self-learning might find retirement easier. My career in software development was a long series of projects – many interesting and some quite boring. In retirement for me I can have my own projects that interest me. Even a walk in the countryside can be interesting spending time to look a things. Currently thinking of building one of these if I can get past the warnings about toxic solder and hot plates, I haven’t dabbled in electronics projects for a while though https://www.omenie.com/about-pipistrelle.html

    Liked by 1 person

    1. > In retirement for me I can have my own projects that interest me.

      This is an aspect that worked for me, there are many interesting things one can poke a snout into. Not al of them work – I recently tried using mobile phone magnetometers to sense changes in the Earth’s field near prehistoric site but they weren’t stable enough. But I learned a lot, including how to graduate from the Arduino IDE to VS and Platformio. Plus the remarkable advances in small microcontrollers since I last did this sort of thing for the farm. I am now looking at making a proton precession magnetometer.

      Bizarre the said you’re tossing away your career at 55 – you’re pretty much washed up in today’s world at that age in terms of career progression 🙂 Though I guess you were perhaps at the peak earning power, my beef with all the magic of compound interest-istas was I was earning three times as much in real terms as an old git than as a young pup. CI roughly doubles your money over 40 years at typical equity returns, and the old git had no mortgage. One should never underestimate the superior firepower of greater earnings and lower outgoings to beat compounding with brute force and 40% tax savings. But it means years foregone at the end are pricey. But they are years you will never live again…

      I had a look at pipistrelle. I’d be tempted to hand solder it, though I guess I have 30 years experience of soldering. Alternatively, just build it leaded – there’s nothing that hard in the analogue design that couldn’t go on a piece of Veroboard and the MCP6022 is available in DIL. SD breakout boards easily had. Small electrets often have a response in the ultrasonic range – I have a Ciel electronic bat detector that uses two venerable Panasonic WM-61As in the corners and two heterodyne channels so you can get a stereo fix on the bats which gives you an easier chance to see the buggers. Mems mics are noisy and ultrasonic audio fades with distance faster than normal sound – I used a pair Senscomp 600 series biased at 60V with a Sound devices 702 running at 192k but didn’t get much greater range from the extra sensitivity. And it’s a bastard to aim when you can’t hear ‘owt and have to use the LEDs on the level meter, the heterodyne bat detector I had in parallel generated horrendous interference.

      I have a different application for monitoring ultrasound at dawn, I may pinch the code, I had no idea the Pico was man enough to record audio. I downloaded the uf2 but it looked like object code not source code to me, and there’s not much design documentation, so I’ll look elsewhere, but an excellent new interesting corner of the world to follow, thank you.

      I do take @ZXSpectrum48k’s point that it’s all trivial stuff that doesn’t amount to a hill of beans in the grand scheme of things, but it keeps then noodle turning and I don’t have ambitions to change the world. I’ll leave that to the e/acc boys 😉

      Liked by 1 person

      1. >> I guess you were perhaps at the peak earning power

        Yes, I was squirrelling the proceeds away at something just over 60% savings rate in my final full time years, upped the pension salary sacrifice and hammered the ISA. No kids and no mortgage makes a big difference. From late 40s to 55 saw the biggest increase in my FIRE war-chest I think, it’s definitely a late burn effect when you’re on the higher earnings and lower outgoings. I don’t think the HR lady who thought I was crazy to want to retire at 55 realised the position I was in financially – although she would have known what pay I was on and noticed I was walking / cycling to work and not arriving in a 70k Tesla like some others…

        Thanks for the ideas on the Pi-Pipestrelle. I couldn’t find any source code either, I was interested in the real-time time expansion coding side of it. I can probably figure that out. As you say, there are other ways to build it – I might get a Pi Pico and get up to speed on microcontroller coding with that. I could get the other parts and bread-board it even to play around before soldering. Meanwhile I’ve re-flashed the AudioMoth as a microphone and got the AudioMoth Live App (from here https://www.openacousticdevices.info/live). Then I just hang the AudioMoth out of a window on a long USB cable connected to the laptop and try to spot the bats flying past when the heterodyne signal is heard! A bit of a waste of the AudioMoth capability though and walking around with a 14 inch laptop would be a pain.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. I was still just in the higher rate band. I salary sacrificed at 30% into the pension, employer match was 8% then a little bit of employer NI coming in, so nearly 40%. Salary sacrifice and employer match was also on performance bonuses. Then some take home pay going into ISA and GIA accounts – the GIA after the company was sold into private equity when the employee share savings scheme evaporated. Making hay for the FIRE plan while the sun was shining!

        Like

      3. That seems like a plan, I hadn’t seen those screen boxes. I got a USB power bank to run the mirrorless camera over USB-C power delivery as it was cheaper than another spare battery, it makes a good winter pocket warmer under load!

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      4. In ratholing on ultrasonic reording, where tech has vastly moved on since I last looked at this remote starting an Olympus recorder @96k or fiddling about with a PiZero and Audioinjector,

        https://www.zachpoff.com/resources/diy-teensy-bat-detector/

        seems to indicate granular synthesis is the secret sauce, he links off to a forum which a shitload of stuff on all that.

        Worth checking the screen in a box display will show your app OK, as I discovered some programs cut off important parts of the UI on a small screen, presumably assumig nobody has a screen that small. There’s a 5″ HDMI screen if you need more realestate

        Liked by 1 person

      5. Ok I’m now down the granular synthesis rathole, it seems I’ve neglected educating myself on digital audio processing all these years. I’ve fiddled with some Python code to deal with the AudioMoth WAV files and analysis those but this is another level! Reading this:
        https://blog.native-instruments.com/granular-synthesis/

        I see there is a Dennis Gabor connection, don’t know why I didn’t know that. And this:

        “ However, granular synthesis was not well suited to pre-digital technologies. Xenakis worked by slicing magnetic tape into tiny pieces and rearranging it. It could take him weeks to finish a composition.”

        Kudos to Xenakis!

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      6. I believe granular synth is behind the sort of effect you can use on podcasts and Youtube to run the audio faster. I can only really follow at 1.5x easily, I can do it at 2x but focusing really hard. Back in the day the associated pitch shift would turn it into chipmunks.

        I’m not sure but I think the same effect is used differently with a different goal (that of pitch shift without time stretch) in things like AutoTune. I hate AT with a rabid vengeance because it strips subtle inflection to my ears. But that’s hardly the fault of granular. Max is the granddaddy of that sort of thing, and there’s IRCAMLab from the 1960s musique concrete French sound art placeIRCAM. Xenakis is challenging stuff, though I fell I could get it if I worked at it, unlike some atonal modern classical.

        I was surprised it gives you enough pitch shift for bat vocalisations, but there you go. Ain’t the world a damned interesting place to poke an inquisitive snout into 😉

        Liked by 1 person

      7. Bill,
        Assuming I have understood your reply correctly, that you got all of: salary sacrifice, an employer contribution (or match) and some of the employer NI on all your pension contributions is, I suspect, quite unusual! Well done.
        Do you anticipate drawing from your pension at BR only? I ask as one thing I had not seen coming was the current fascination with fiscal drag.

        Liked by 1 person

      8. Al Cam –
        Yes I was getting significant amounts going into the pension monthly. I thought these salary sacrifice arrangements were quite common these days though? The employer 8% match and giving back some of the employer saved NI was a good deal though.

        I was going to initially withdraw the SIPP within BR taking cash from ETF dividends via UFPLS. HL seem to think I need a PensionWise interview before starting UFPLS, maybe they’re just covering themselves. Something to figure out!

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      9. > current fascination with fiscal drag.

        Now that sort of reminds me that I really ought to spring the rest of my SIPP, I will pay BRT on 75% of it but the situation ain’t going to improve over time. It would be a shame to pay NI on it too, if that is coming down the pike sometime. I am better off shunting it into the unwrapped account even if that does expose me to CGT, which is a lower rate than if the increase in capital, should it happen, is taxed at BRT. I really ought to empty that this tax year.

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      10. IMO fiscal drag sure has the ability to take some of the shine off of DC’s/SIPP’s!

        My plan is to entirely flatten my DC prior to my SP coming on stream. If not I risk paying 40% tax to draw any residual DC (primarily as my DB plus SP may come close to exceeding the frozen HR threshold) – and that was never part of my plan! Things may look different (re the DC/SIPP) if you have offspring – though personally I find it hard to believe that that IHT ‘loophole’ will survive for much longer.

        Bill,

        1) I cannot speak for others, but your company pension arrangements look rather generous to me. My basic contributions (exc. any bonus – which was said to be ‘not pensionable’) were salary sacrificed. And not any AVC’s over and above the basic contribution. Also, I never saw any employer NI coming back my way. Having said that, my employer did pay a generous contribution of my basic salary, which incidentally was age related and increased as I got older!

        2) I may have misunderstood you, but please note that the annual allowance is use it or lose it! So if you have been retired for some two years and not touched your DC/SIPP yet you may (I stress may) have missed a trick.

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      11. >>pension arrangements look rather generous

        I found working for tech / software co’s the pensions were good, but all DC pots. No DB pensions for me! The last 10 years were best after we got acquired by a large US tech company. I missed out on something called “rule of 75” – if your age and length of service >= 75 you get extra retirement benefits. I’m sure one person I knew got it but they then closed it for UK staff.

        Yes I’ve missed out on 20% tax refunds not putting the annual £2880 or whatever into the SIPP last few years. It was worries about LTA and potential government pensions meddling, I’d rather put the cash in the ISA – less friction getting it out. I’ll probably pay BR tax or more on SIPP / DC pot withdrawals anyway at some point especially when SP kicks in.

        BTW – If you have a WordPress account you can see the nested comment conversations in the WordPress UI and reply in the right place.

        Like

      12. For info, my latest calcs [on fiscal drag] show that if you have a current gross DB [etc] pension of around 31k PA and your SP starts in a handful of years there is a risk that you will be a HR tax payer as, or soon after, your SP comes on stream assuming you have a full SP.

        And, as @Ermine notes, this situation could well continue to worsen for the foreseeable.

        Liked by 1 person

      13. Because state pension and maybe your DB pension will rise with inflation but the personal allowance has been frozen by that Hunt? I’m betting ex-PMs, MPs, cabinet ministers and HMRC employees & co will do fine by their pensions, rewards and allowances etc…

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      14. Bill,

        I worked mostly defence/aerospace; and they were generally good for pensions too. If nothing else, they employ lots of [software] engineers too. To my eyes your DC deal looks very good. In many ways, my DB is the bedrock of my retirement. I had the DB from an early age as joining at the earliest opportunity was, at that time, a condition of employment. I did get the opportunity to leave the scheme later – which I declined; as by then I had a better idea that a pension could be a useful thing. Whether I would have voluntarily joined the DB scheme when I did is very much an open question! Consequently, I find any whinging against paternalistic employers a bit daft.

        I had a different job (albeit in the same sector) for my last few working years and that was where I got into DC/SIPP, AVC’s etc as no DB was available to new employees. My motivation for getting to grips with the AVC’s was not initially FIRE related, but that is a whole other story!

        Re allowances: what I meant was using the annual (use it or lose it) personal tax allowance (c. £12.5k) to draw down [some] of your DC pension tax free. But, of course, you may be using this allowance elsewhere.

        I understand your LTA concerns and agree about your use of ISA’s – but why not populate the ISA from your DC? If you are populating your ISA from, say, a GIA this IMO may not be as tax efficient; but again I stress ‘may’.

        Re WordPress: thanks, I thought something like that might be the explanation.

        Liked by 1 person

      15. > I did get the opportunity to leave the scheme later – which I declined; as by then I had a better idea that a pension could be a useful thing.

        Presumably in the pensions mis-selling scandal of the late 1980s/early 1990s?

        In all fairness to them, The Firm explicitly sent out an all-personnel broadcast to the effect that “unless you have particularly unusual circumstances it is unlikely that leaving the DB pension will be advantageous to you”. I had been made more cynical about financial institutions bearing promises by the endowments mess so I had come to that conclusion before this, ISTR the fees were really quite eyewatering

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      16. Ah my first job after graduation in 1985 was the space and defence arm of a big UK IT / Consultancy group. I didn’t join the DB pension (I’d better check) as I left after less than 2 years. I just couldn’t get enough experience to get on the more interesting projects. Also getting vetted for defence and government project work could pigeon hole you in certain projects at that place.

        I see, talking about losing out on the personal tax allowance. There was the possibility of doing some software work for an old colleague / friend, but that didn’t really get going. Getting paid by your friends is tricky anyway! It was mentally useful to do a bit of that during the COVID lock-ups though.

        Plan was to eventually cycle money out of the SIPP and put excess cash into the ISA. I wasn’t planning to take from the SIPP until next year though and I have GIA investments and another asset to sort out that will attract a big CGT bill and provide annual ISA allowance money and spending for a while.

        Putting some cash into NS&I income bonds at 6% looks quite attractive too, although interest is not tax free and that rate is only fixed for 1 year. Especially as defusing CGT on GIA funds like VLS80 etc is going to make life difficult when the allowance is down to £3000.

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      17. Yes, although the scandal came later.
        IIRC, the relevant legislation was the Social Security Act of 1986, see e.g. : https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803100515448

        Funny how what goes around comes around.

        Have you twigged the double whammy effect of fiscal drag in the current environment: your DB may fail to keep pace with prices (unless you are in a public sector scheme, like, say HMRC employees) and as a reward for that you are required to pay more taxes?

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      18. > your DB may fail to keep pace with prices (unless you are in a public sector scheme, like, say HMRC employees) and as a reward for that you are required to pay more taxes?

        That is why I hung on to my largish ISA for grim death across the Gap, and continue building it without drawing down. And why I burned down my SIPP/AVCs into the ground while I still had a personal allowance to burn in the gap; to gain resilience against that sort of hazard.

        That’s the issue with diversification, you cannae win ’em all. Coffee for the things you can change, red wine for the ones you can’t… Serenity 😉

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      19. Ermine,

        With you there.
        I see little point (really I should say no point) in keeping any of my erstwhile DC. Others may view this differently e.g. through their IHT glasses. I am also fairly convinced that neither (flatten your DC or IHT dodge) is the path intended – but so be it!

        When I pulled the plug six plus years ago my overriding objectives (daft though they may seem to others) were, and still are, in no particular order:
        a) to not pay any LTA penalty; and
        b) to eliminate (as far as practicable) the possibility of ever paying tax again at HRT.

        When I pulled the plug I thought a) would be the trickiest to achieve, but it turns out that (even before Hunt’s changes to the LTA) due to “events” and rule changes along the way (primarily fiscal drag) objective b) became the more tricky. The jury is out on whether I will achieve objective b) and future “events” could easily scupper or possibly enhance my probability of success.

        I think a lot of people are sleepwalking into being unwitting HR tax payers as retirees.

        It is a shame that DB’s are so inflexible, but this a given that seems unlikely to ever change – especially if bulk annuities take over as some folks predict.

        Personally, I much prefer tea to coffee.

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      20. > I see little point (really I should say no point) in keeping any of my erstwhile DC.

        Still worth a free £180 a year to BRTaxpayers above the personal allowance from regular income due to the 25% TFLS on the £2880 going in made up to £3600. That’s less than the £720 it was worth to me in the Gap when I didn’t have the PA used. I kept mine for that and let it build up in shares when I ran out of ISA space, but on reflection the GIA is a better bet, I am building both my GIA and the ISA and will probably ground the SIPP down to the min £1k to keep it open, but 1k in VWRL. rather than cash because: inflation.

        For people with kids the IHT wheeze will probably stay for the technical reason that a pension is usually a form of trust, so it is outwith your estate. There’s an argument that well-heeled Boomers with DB pensions and kids that fail to launch may consider if they can direct their Expression of Wish to their kids, because again, a DB pension is a trust. But many DB pension schemes scale down or forbid dependents when there’s a significant age gap; a DC pension doesn’t have that problem because it’s a defined amount rather than a defined entitlement. Either way, dewy-eyed parents wanting to featherbed their deadbeat kids are probably safe from IHT grabs because of that trust aspect

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      21. Bill,

        I found working with friends to be OK; but I have a long-standing rule that I will never work for or indeed employ friends/family.

        @Ermine noted that prioritising sorting a GIA ahead of flattening a DC/SIPP may be the wrong way round; primarily to do with CGT rates vs income tax rates. IIRC you cannot use your personal tax allowance against capital gains.

        We just got a taxable 3 year (fixed rate) ‘bond’ at 6.05% when renewing a maturing ‘bond’.

        Re my fiscal drag calcs – they do depend (to some extent) on:
        a) the finer details e.g. the triple lock on the SP can award an increase > cpi inflation; DB indexation may be related to RPI (but possibly capped) which is generally > cpi, etc;
        b) the future inflation scenario assumed (which consistently has been getting worse in the short term for 2+ years now); and
        c) the HR boundary is also frozen

        Lastly re WordPress: one reason I though WP might be implicated is that I get emails (from Bill) when you comment, which I was somewhat surprised by.

        Liked by 1 person

      22. > Still worth a free £180 a year to BRTaxpayers
        You are of course correct, but given I have not bothered with this since I pulled the plug I cannot see me changing course.

        < For people with kids the IHT wheeze will probably stay for the technical reason that a pension is
        usually a form of trust, so it is outwith your estate.
        As I said, I am pretty sure that this is not the [HMG] intended path and therefore I am fairly sure something will change – but then again it doesn't matter to us anyway.

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      23. > For info, my latest calcs [on fiscal drag] show that if you have a current gross DB [etc] pension of around 31k PA and your SP starts in a handful of years …

        Please note this has reduced from >£32k in March 2023 which for some dumb reason I stated completely incorrectly as £27k in https://simplelivingsomerset.wordpress.com/2023/03/21/dont-let-the-tax-tail-wag-the-investment-dog-well-ok-maybe-this-once/

        The principal reasons for the decline since March are:
        a) worsening short-term OBR/BoE inflation scenario; and
        b) likely 2023 triple lock value somewhat higher than assumed in Q1

        Liked by 1 person

      24. I am tickled by the slight parody of b) where the triple lock raises your income from the State Pension such that you pay HR tax where if they didn’t raise it you wouldn’t, but I get the high level issue of their incontinent money printing devaluing the currency such that the overall tax take is higher 😉

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    2. Bill,
      P.S. how on earth do you manage to reply directly following a comment at this level of nesting? I can only reply at the parent level.

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  9. Ermine old bean, we’ve been (constructively and amiably 🙂 ) arguing about this getting ‘meaning from work’ malarkey for well over a decade now.

    You’ve made plenty of salient points about why for you it ain’t so and that’s fair enough.

    I’m sure that you’re also right there are some who could be finding satisfaction elsewhere who do not because they are myopically focussed on work/earning/careers or whatnot.

    However when something comes up again and again and again — such as people seeming rather attached to being in the workforce — personally I’d suggest you have to either decide you’re Galileo and everyone else is wrong, or maybe you’re discussing the world as it is for you and not as it is for most people, or even as it *should* be if you like? 🙂

    We’ve seen countless (most) FIRE bloggers go on with work of some sort. We’ve seen early retirees who don’t blog go back to work.

    Pretty much every famous person who makes a lot of money continues to work.

    My co-blogger @TA is still working (freelance) as he’s said. @ZXSpectrum48K says here that his position is shifting.

    Of course some hit their number and afterwards don’t work. Of course. Not everyone is the same.

    But I feel decrying this work impulse is a bit like living in the Puritan era and saying religion is far too important.

    Well yes perhaps it was and maybe it will be replaced in time, as was then. But right now, work, earning, and money is central.

    For me people are living in the world as they find it — which as you rightly say is woefully understocked with meaning — and if some of them find work/earning/careers a part of that meaning then good on them for keeping sane I say. 🙂

    Not to say we shouldn’t keep examining it, individually and as commentators. Here’s to another decade or more of doing so! 😉

    Personally as always I think control and choice is what’s really important.

    Not on/off, for most people.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Ah, prisoners will not be taken ;), perhaps the white flag was missed against the gleaming white mustelid pelt 😉

      The change to retirement is harder than I thought it was, on reflection, even if it wasn’t that hard for me.

      At the risk of going off-piste in the mystical direction, I came across the connection of Jung and the foundation of Alcoholics Anonymous. To roughly paraphrase

      His craving for alcohol was the equivalent, on a low level, of the spiritual thirst of our being for wholeness[…]How could one formulate such an insight in a language that is not misunderstood in our days?

      The only right and legitimate way to such an experience is that it happens to you in reality and it can only happen to you when you walk on a path which leads you to higher understanding. You might be led to that goal by an act of grace or through a personal and honest contact with friends, or through a higher education of the mind beyond the confines of mere rationalism.

      I see some of the transcendental search in how some folk talk about work, and if this is the case then yes, it is a core element of who they are, it is not just what they do.

      I grew up in a Britain that didn’t expect to find meaning from work; it was less secular and arguably only thirty years from having to very clearly articulate and press the case for what it valued, value is more fragmented now. When I considered what I wanted to do, I wanted something that would be intellectually stimulating, not be too people-centered, and hopefully pay reasonably well so I could achieve the desiderata of the society at the time. I cant’ really complain about the overall hand I was dealt, this was largely achieved. It never occurred to me, however, that it would give me meaning or indeed achieve spiritual/mystical ends; I worked to live, not lived to work.

      I was not primed to expect a world so disenchanted. Most people read Max Weber’s disenchantment as superstition and magic being run out of Western thought by the Enlightenment, but there is also a philosophical aspect to it which is somewhat above my intellectual pay grade but it’s possible to recognise some of it in our world

      No one knows who will live in this cage (Gehäuse) in the future, or whether at the end of this tremendous development entirely new prophets will arise, or there will be a great rebirth of old ideas and ideals, or, if neither, mechanized petrification, embellished with a sort of convulsive self-importance. For the “last man” (letzten Menschen) of this cultural development, it might well be truly said: “Specialist without spirit, sensualist without heart; this nullity imagines that it has attained a level of humanity (Menschentums) never before achieved” (Max Weber, the Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, 1905)

      So yeah, I missed the spiritual aspect to work; first because I didn’t have it so I wasn’t looking for such a bizarre (to me) thing, and arguably because at the time I was trying to break out of it it would have been maladaptive. I have grown slightly mellower in this respect as I have grown older and collected more data second-hand 😉

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      1. For me, work was always about gaining from a sense of achievement. As soon as that disappeared, motivation plummeted – continuing felt like re-sitting school exams over and over again to get the same results – – pointless. Its difficult to carry on when that happens, unless financially there is no choice. If I ever returned to work it would be solely for the social aspects, not for the work itself, and Im not sure what work would be worth it.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Apologies, I did miss the white(-ish…) flag!

        Yes once again you bring a lot of intellectual heft for why this stance is right for you. I always enjoy reading about it, and it does make me think. 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Lovely mediaeval town as well, Vannes, and not a million miles from the Carnac stones, but it’s good to see a noble mustelid flying the mostly white flag with ermine markings.

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      4. While I may not be quite so keen on retirement, I still think that the idea of finding meaning from work is basically an edge case. My concern about retirement is that I will still have to shovel shit to the same degree as in a job, or possibly even more. Yes, different looking, different smelling manure, but shit nonetheless. The game is simply to minimize one’s exposure to that shovelling.

        My current work clearly has no meaning. In that I join the other 99%+ whose work has no meaning. The modern world is, essentially, full of BS jobs.

        If I hadn’t been forced into finance by a financial imperative, then my life would have taken a different path. Hopefully, I’d now be a Professsor of Theoretical Physics at some uni. Most of my PhD colleagues are, so it’s not that fanciful. Though given the lack of any tangible progress in that subject for the last few decades, I think that is it a stretch to say their work has had meaning. At a minimum though, my work might have had a small probability of having meaning vs. the current zero probability.

        Liked by 1 person

      5. > My concern about retirement is that I will still have to shovel shit to the same degree as in a job, or possibly even more

        Logic would imply you pay others to do the shit shovelling for you. Obvs assuming you have the cash, but that’s probably a given in your case?

        > If I hadn’t been forced into finance by a financial imperative, then my life would have taken a different path.

        I hazard a guess that I hear an injury from long ago, and perhaps one with a symbolism that draws power. Outsiders would look and see you with a career of very notable success, but the non-elective and possible feeling of unfairness in your younger self not having the choice of which road to take. Apologies is that’s wide of the mark or out of turn.

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      6. Work getting increasingly toxic in various forms skews the argument, but quality and choice were always going to be deciding factors on how important it should be in your life, I actually liked the job description, it was the enforced needless and unpleasant extras like politics that ruined it. Also, if your society or culture is so unbalanced that work is the only thing giving you meaning in your life, then it is not work that is so wonderful, the real problem is how everything else in your life is so bad. At the end of the life, there are no pockets in a shroud, nor can you can take status with you.

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      1. Haha, came across that for Weekend Reading and was going to drop it in here as an olive branch (between Internet friends 🙂 ) but then noticed that’s still 71% who think it is important, even in the UK.

        i.e. Most people’s definition of ‘most’. 😉

        But you’re right — you seem to be young at heart! (Personally I think they’ve given up seeing much point working for their goals, thinking that to get the house car and 2.4 kids, at least int he SE, ideally needs rich family not a good job 😦 )

        Anyway will drop your article in the links, maybe some more will chime in.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Flippin’ heck, I came across this prize snippet about the tragedy of millennial work. Firstly a tragedy because capitalism is selling a reheated version f Rhonda Byrne’s The Secret but with knobs on, and secondly it backs up the astrologer 😉

        Jessie De Lowe, a manifestation coach […] likens manifestation to life coaching. The majority of De Lowe’s clients are young, female, and college-educated. […] she describes an unsatisfied group gripped by peer competitiveness and unrealistic expectations fueled by social media. […]

        it’s no wonder young women find themselves searching for ways to hack the universe. It’s an appealing concept for those raised to believe that if they follow certain steps, they could get what they want. They were led to trust in a meritocracy, that good hard work always wins.

        Apple-polishing millennials got straight As, went to college, then graduated into a recession and found themselves saddled with student debt. Those who secured good jobs later felt stifled by what they considered meaningless positions or weren’t adequately prepared for the mundanity of corporate life.
        Featured Videos

        Workplace stress is particularly painful for a percentage of millennials who define themselves through their employment. “Do what you love and you’ll never work a day in your life,” they were told (much to their grandparents’ confusion, who warned that work was to pay the bills).
        […] Work-life balance becomes impossible because the self and work are intertwined.

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  10. @Ermine. Cannot reply to your nested comment.

    Yes, I can (and do) pay for people to shovel the crap I don’t want to (such as gardening, educating my kids). That only goes so far though. Baiscally, I’m totally unable to multi-task. I’m usually focussed on one thing. Anything else is a distraction and goes in the “shovelling shit” bucket. See, I’m not a well adapted to the real world.

    With regard to my counterfactual life. Essentially, I was all set to do a post-doc in the US. At which point, my parent’s local Tory council decided to turf them out of their council house. Sort of “right to buy”, but if you can’t, then we’ll sell it to developer we happen to know! My dad had a long-term disability caused by a prior job, so they were financially precarious. This left them homeless aswell. I felt it necessary to get a better paying job to support them. Finance paid. Over a decade later, the group of residents, including my parents, won their case against both the council and developer but it was a bit late for me by then.

    So I have moments where I channel Brando “I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let’s face it.”.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. That’s really awful, I feel for you and I’m really sorry that happened to both you and your parents. I’m of the view RTB shat on the current generations, I had no idea that it shat on some people at the time! While it’s not possible to make the moving finger rewrite the lines it can be worth exploring ways of drawing the charge from the mental record of the experience.

      > I’m totally unable to multi-task.

      Probably mitigates against stopping work until the kids are of age 😉 The aristocracy has butlers for that sort of thing, but I’d imagine you’d need to have grown up with that sort of thing to be at ease with it, it would disturb my fur no end even if I could afford it without breaking a sweat, which isn’t the case.

      Heck, we replaced a wooden fencepost a coupe of weeks ago and I did ask myself “this is a rotten job, it’s not what I want to be doing with my time and I could afford to spend whatever it takes to get someone to do it”, but the process of getting someone to do it is worse than doing it.

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      1. Ermine – I have put 6 spurs on rotten wooden fence posts over the last few years. Spur number 7 I did a couple of weeks ago. This obviously entails removing the concrete around the rotten part of the post in the ground which is not a trivial job. I am 69. I really wish I hadn’t been so Scottish and paid out for someone to do that last post. It took me 3 days to get the concrete out – paying someone would have been FAR LESS than 3 days of my time.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. I was tempted that way (spur)this time because this one was in an awkward position, but I take the line that my older self might hate me so I have the lot out and redo them with Postcrete.

        SDS+ is my friend, obvs with ear and eye protection. And take your watch off, how do I know that 😉 . I dug the first one out manually and sought a better way, hired a power hammer from Purple hire. The Titan does the same job, and a wide tile chisel digs out the wood faster.

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    2. @ZXSpectrum48K I’m really sorry you & your parents went through that – deeply unfair on you all.

      I also wanted to follow an academic career – in my early 20s I was obsessed with the subject I did my first degree in, but for long, messy and complicated reasons that I won’t go into online, which were also very unfair, it didn’t happen, though not due to lack of ability. This was always a background source of pain, though I did get to do other things I genuinely valued and don’t regret, both work-wise and meeting Mr Ermine 🙂

      Now I don’t _need_ to earn a living (another long story) I have returned to study exactly that same academic subject as a part-time Masters over two years (part-time as it is a long commute and I also need to catch up on the first degree stuff from over 30 years ago). It’s great – and it is going better than I had hoped – I just got back from a conference which was fascinating, though I fear I slightly confuse people – I’m a female Masters student in my fifties in a fairly male dominated subject… but then again I’ve now had half a lifetime of being the odd one out (I was the first female engineer for my first two employers – “no, I will _not_ do the photocopying…”) The challenges I had “back in the day” have eased, get proper university support, or have gone, and I enjoy it more than I did before, though it has its moments, of course. Not needing to make money from it is transformative.

      @Greg Parker – I’m sorry being an academic wasn’t a great experience, thanks for sharing. I really feel for the academic staff teaching me, it is clearly not a supportive environment.

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      1. Hello Mrs Ermine!!!! I feel I should fill in the background as to why the Academic experience was shite, as it might seem incomprehensible to some people, that having the luxury of loads of time off and Sabbaticals, is nothing to moan about. I started off with a First Class Honours degree in Physics, Mathematics and Astronomy (from Sussex) and finished off with a PhD in Semiconductor Physics from Surrey whilst working in a research lab (so I got paid to do the PhD). My first-degree student days at Sussex filled my head with the nonsense that a University lecturer must be the dream job. This was confirmed by my ex-father in Law who lived in Ashurst and had to commute every day to work in London in a suit and tie. He was extremely pissed off by his neighbour (a University lecturer at Imperial College) who on the few days he had to go in, was able to commute up to London in shorts, sandals and a T-shirt in blisteringly hot weather. But I digress. After 3 years at my University, student fees were introduced, the rot set in, and it was, as far as I’m concerned, the end of Higher Education. Students overnight became “paying customers” and Universities became poorly run businesses with only one entry on the Business Model – Get Bums on Seats. To that end, many drastic changes were made to the running of courses, none of which were immediately apparent to the outside world, all of which I strongly condemned (to no avail) in the School/Departmental meetings. It doesn’t really matter what those changes were, but I can give a concrete example of a result of those changes. After the first cohort of fee paying students left for the outside world I got a very angry phone call from a friend who worked in industry (I had worked in industry for 12 years before going to work at University). He fumed down the phone “I’ve just taken on one of your students who came out of your University with a First, and he’s a complete and utter bloody idiot – what have you got to say about that?” Actually I already had an answer prepared for this, as this was the phone call I had been expecting ever since student fees were introduced. “Well I’m very sorry to hear that, but my first reaction is that maybe your interviewing process needs reviewing if you weren’t able to detect this at interview. However, my second reaction is more sympathetic. This is the first cohort of fee paying students to hit the streets, to be frank, they have had a pretty easy ride compared to what you and I went through. A First today is not, by a long shot, comparable to a First from 1978, and I’m afraid that’s what it’s going to be like from now on.” He understood, was more than a little pissed off that I questioned their interviewing technique, and I lost a friend. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. I won’t go into the even more annoying aspects of University life, like as we are now businesses we will treat our VCs like the CEOs of big companies, even though they are totally incompetent. And the fact that my VC was the highest paid VC in the country (yes and totally incompetent) and when he was asked, by several VCs from other Universities, NOT to take the pay increase that was being offered, stuck up two fingers and took the pay increase. It is not all entirely negative however. It is while this VC was in office (he later got sacked!) that the University offered Early Severance to Admin Staff only. Undaunted I applied! I was looking through the 7 pages of forms to fill out getting more and more depressed as there didn’t seem any way I could state my case – until there – at the very end – was my saviour question. “Why is this a good time for you to apply for Early Severance?” Bingo!! Now I can’t for obvious reasons say what I wrote on that fateful day, let’s just say it had something to do with the sanity of the committee that had taken on the current VC, and a little about the VC himself. Well it had the desired effect. The VC went ballistic apparently and called in half a dozen Professors across the University to as “Who the f**ck is this Parker person?” I know this because one of the Professors was a friend of mine. They tried to keep a straight face as he read out what I had written, and I’m not sure they were too successful, as I became the only Academic in the University to get the Early Severance deal. One of the conditions of the deal was that I was never to be able to work for the University again (as if 🙂 ). So I got out age 56 and am able to write the tale at age 69. I know I wouldn’t have made 60 if I had needed to stay put. And that also shows the stupidity of that VC. If he hadn’t gone ballistic and thought it through properly, he would have said, “Right this bastard is going to stay here until the bitter end and I will give him every shit job going”. Fortunately his ego got in the way. End of rant.

        Liked by 3 people

      2. That, sir, is a top rant and up with the best 😉 I’m sorry to hear that it ended that way but OTOH you got to follow your own path a little earlier.

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      3. @Greg Parker – hello! That was indeed a top rant, and, while shocking, unfortunately your tale doesn’t really surprise me. The cultural changes since my last encounter with a UK university are disorientating and dispiriting. I wrote a stinking email to the VC of my university about the latest industrial action to say that, IMHO, their academic staff were being overworked and underpaid and that the university management risk undermining the entire edifice if it carries on like this much longer. Needless to say I didn’t receive a reply…

        I now want to study my subject simply because I find it interesting. While I wouldn’t rule out doing paid work in it, I don’t ever want to be trammelled into topics or types of work that piss me off.

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      4. I must admit I do often think of going back to study. I couldn’t cope with quantum field theory any more. Intellectually, I’m only a shadow of my younger self. Anyway, I’ve already got the PhD and the subject seems to have gone down a rabbit hole where I do not want to follow.

        I keep thinking about doing an MA or PhD in the history or archeology of late antiquity or the early medieval era. It would give me something to obsess over, with lots of detail, and has absolutely no practical application at all. Perfect for me. I’d also get a chance to annoy lots of people in the humanities department!

        Right now though I’m just treading water. Waiting for the kids to fly the nest. Reckon another 5 years or so.

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      5. @ZX:
        Your comment reminded me of a colleague who years ago when he retired went back to university and did a divinity degree. At the time (I was a lot younger then) his choice struck me as slightly surprising as he was a physical scientist by his first degree. However, on reflection, that probably says more about me than him! As it happens, many years later I had another colleague who oscillated between being a paid engineer and a paid pastor.

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      6. Hi Mrs Ermine, congrats on returning to study.

        I’m early(ish) 50’s mostly retired and have contemplated going back too. My background was maths/stats but I’ve forgot so much and so was interested in a local Behavioural Economics MSc course (seems fun and interesting).

        Given the circa £12k cost I’m wondering how much woke nonsense there is to put up with, and also how many lectures are in person v video. If I’m paying I’d want real people/tuition not you tube? I’m just not sure a grumpy old man will fit in..

        Interestingly if you do a PhD the stipend can be £20k and I think it’s tax free!

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  11. ZXSpectrum48K – A lot of my (Physics) Uni friends also ended up in Finance, which I personally thought was a waste of talent. I didn’t. I did end up as a Professor of Theoretical Physics at a Russell Group University. And if it’s any consolation to you – it was as shitty as any other job I held down – so please don’t feel you missed out on anything.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Well congrats anyway.

      To be honest, even as I left, I felt the dominance of SUSY and strings/branes on elementary particle theory was becoming a problem. Now, 25 years later, and as an outsider looking in, I think it’s only got worse. It seems to have crowded out pretty much everything else in that area. Lovely math but what the multiverse and string landscape has to do with physics somewhat escapes me. Closer to theism than science.

      If I’d stayed in academia, I suspect I would have been forced to plough that furrow, simply to guarantee the next post-doc or research grant. I could be looking back after a quarter of a century and feeling that Pauli’s “Not even wrong” would be an apt summary of my contribution.

      Nonetheless, even that would be more useful that what I currently do.

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      1. @ZXSpectrum48k “I keep thinking about doing an MA or PhD in the history or archaeology of late antiquity or the early medieval era” – that sounds really interesting.

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      1. No worries – I noted your PRL stint from your own website, and whilst the timings are about in the correct ballpark (I am not 100% sure of PWE’s time at PRL) it was always a bit of a long shot. Thanks anyway.

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  12. Do you recall the long discussion you, DavidV, and I had about NI contributions and in particular the cut over to the new state pension, see: https://simplelivingsomerset.wordpress.com/2022/10/21/dear-tory-mp/

    In particular I noted that “I foolishly made up a partial year to a qualifying year that in the final calculation of the starting value for SP brought my absolutely nothing.”

    Well, after our chatter I did a bit of further research and finally got around to writing to HMRC in February of this year to ask for my money back. I got a letter last week confirming that I would get a full refund and the payable order arrived in the post an hour or two ago.

    For info, there was no dialogue with HMRC between February and last week, but I did note some curious goings-on with my NI record in June that were only finally undone in early August. To my eyes, these manipulations looked like somebody was doing a what-if calculation. I have not been able to check my NI record today as the HMRC site seems to be down. When I do get access, I will check to see if a) my NI record has been corrected to reflect the refund; and b) if there is any interest due to me too.

    Seems like it is good to chat!

    Liked by 1 person

    1. @Al Cam
      Congratulations on your NI refund! It must have been galling up to now thinking you had paid DWP/HMRC anything voluntarily for no benefit.
      It had also been bothering me lately that a linked article in a recent Monevator Weekend Reading showed that, since I claimed my State Pension in 2018, the triple lock had twice resulted in increases in line with average earnings. I had stated well down the thread you referred to (and @ermine helpfully links above) that, from memory, my increases had always been CPI or 2.5%. Apparently, I was wrong on this.

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      1. DavidV,

        Whilst it was annoying, I had all but written it off. However, after our chat which crystallised a lot of things for me (so thanks again to you & @Ermine) I thought I would apply and see what happened. Ordinarily, you can only go back six years, but I argued this was exceptional as it related to the introduction of the new SP.
        Since my post this morning I have been able to look at my NI record today, and indeed the year in question has had the voluntary contributions removed, and is therefore no longer a qualifying year. OOI, due to the extension of the new SP deadline I could buy it today at a mere 30%+ more than I did originally – but, rest assured, I will be passing on that offer!
        No sign in my HMRC a/c of any interest either – but then again there is no sign of the NI refund either; so who knows.

        I think the relevant SP indexation sequence goes as follows by tax year:
        18/19 cpi
        19/20 wages
        20/21 wages
        21/22 min (2.5%)
        22/23 cpi
        and I am fairly confident that next year (23/24) will be wages again.

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      2. @Al Cam It’s looking almost certain that next year’s increase will be linked to earnings. I fear this is only going to increase the political pressure to abandon the triple lock. While it is currently being regarded as over-generous, it should be remembered that it was introduced only after pensioner standard of living had fallen well behind the general population increase in prosperity after many years of being linked only to inflation. Of course, the government seems to be stuck with the winter heating allowance, which was only introduced as a sop to pensioners after the outcry when a low inflation year resulted in a 50p weekly pension increase. Oh, and not to forget the £10 Christmas bonus! I can’t remember what political pressure caused this. Both these allowances are tax-free.

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      3. Yup, a lot of small-minded folks are being whipped up into a frenzy by sections of the press and are clearly getting hot under the collar again. And, we now indisputably know where that can lead. From the house of commons library “According to an OECD analysis published in 2021, the UK has an overall net replacement rate of 58.1% from mandatory pensions for an average earner, below the OECD average of 69.1%.”

        Never let the facts get in the way of the news! I must admit I rather liked @Ermines “Chicken Little press” phrase above.

        Free TV licences for oldies are being rolled back (but not by HMG I hasten to add). I suspect this may just be the start of more such shenanigans.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Indeed!
        I guess I needed to add something like “honest guv”.
        Playbook seems to go: complexity/opacity; stealth; fiscal drag; and the best yet, getting somebody else to do it on your behalf. Wonder what comes next?

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      5. @DavidV,
        Provisional figure for wage growth published earlier this morning is 8.5%.
        Need to wait about a month to get the final figure which should be published mid October.
        Put “KAC3 ONS” into G if you want history, etc.

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      6. @Al Cam Yep, I heard on the news this morning. And the sustainability of the triple lock was immediately being questioned once again. It would have been safer for its continuation if earnings increase had been much closer to next months predicted CPI figures.

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  13. All those comments & no one is encouraging you to give EEAAO another go. Unbelievable. It is really is a fascinating film, but you you just have to go with it for the first 40 mins or so until it gets wonderfully weird, whacky, crazy & thought provoking. It’s also very funny at times. I certainly didn’t imagine getting all the critical acclaim it latterly did. It’s so “out there” and not mainstream at all.

    Now, on retiring. Mrs LCIL and I are diametrically opposed. Her work is a true calling – she cannot see herself not doing it (in some shape or form) really at all. Whereas for me, I’m ready to finish any time soon please – I have no worries that I won’t be able to fill my non-working life with purpose & meaning. I’ve never felt defined by my employment, it’s always the part of life you get on with to allow yourself the funds and freedom to do everything else.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Has anyone else had the experience of discovering that what they thought was the truth about an important financial decision in their life was just a false memory?

    For years I had “known” that one of the best financial decisions I’d made was to choose to sign up for a DB pension in my first job after graduation. Recently I found the evidence: I was wrong. (a) I had had no choice: signing on to the pension was compulsory. (b) And it wasn’t a DB scheme but rather a DC.

    I had in fact swapped it into a DB scheme years later. That’s the second time in my life I’ve discovered a false memory. I wonder how common it it.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. >That’s the second time in my life I’ve discovered a false memory. I wonder how common it it.

      It seems to be a common part of the human experience. Though of course an undiscovered false memory remains part of the narrative thread of your autobiographical memory. And we are descended from a long line of storytellers, sometimes the symbolic narrative carries the meaning even if it lacks accuracy.

      You ended up with DB which was part of most of your experience of work and pensions I’d guess? So that was the essentials distilled as you look back at this from a distance. Data reduction in action 😉

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  15. Reducing the real value of the state pension, which is already not favourably comparable against the decent countries in Europe, is a real dilemma for the tories. Reign in any boomer bribes and they’ll lose the usual minority of the electorate they need to stay in privilege, but pay out and the foreign creditors may crash the economy. This is the downside of selling out the country that their supporters don’t or won’t accept, like sheep voting for organophosphate dips.

    The reality is that should New labour 2.0 get in, it’ll only be a different-looking glove puppet on the same iron fiscal fist. Starmer has dogwhistled plenty to the donors that he’ll sell out whatever it takes to be elected in a new bliar b**** project, so nothing significant will change, decline will grind on.

    The fundamental problem is that Old Bloaty is no longer the top global bully since its massive loss of power at the end of WWII, so can’t leverage that threat to extort wealth from an empire and anyone else weak enough, but with the resources to attract kleptocratic attention. A spiral of self-perpetuating decline then set in, such that even the income from neocolonialism (unfair trade agreements etc) is petering out too. That in turn exposes the fact that the Uk doesn’t earn enough to remain a first-world country and the remaining current revenue streams yield diminishing returns. It’s a miracle that the creditors haven’t worked this out yet, but such good luck doesn’t last forever and a hint of the destruction that can happen was clear after Lil’ Lettuce Lizzie and her echo-chamber cabinet tried to spend on tax-back for the rich like it was ’89 and North Sea Oil was filling the coffers.

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  16. Thanks for your article ermine.

    I have been reading a lot lately about people’s experience after pulling the trigger on full FIRE and also on the degree of desperation to get to that point in time. I find it fascinating the differences between people on these fronts. There is of course a huge amount of people who really do hate their jobs, really dislike working for ‘The Man’ and don’t feel like they will miss almost any of it. The long for the escape and it’s almost like their life is some live action lived in version of Shawshank redemption.

    I used to feel this way about my old job and I wanted to reach FIRE quickly although things have changed since I landed my current job 6 years ago. I have recently hit a great milestone on my journey and I was asking myself that if I had actually hit my ultimate end goal now, would I retire? I asked myself the same question for my current job and my old job. In my old job, it was almost an instant yes I would. I would hand in my resignation with glee to ‘The Man’ without losing any soul or meaning to my life in the process.

    With my current job working for the NHS though, one I actually really enjoy even after 6 years (I know this can change). I’m not so sure. I don’t feel so much like I am working for ‘The Man’anymore. I have pride in my work and maybe therefore some meaning too I guess? I feel valued at work, feel like I’m helping create something good for others, challenging myself etc which I never really felt at my old place. Maybe I’m just one of the lucky ones to have paid work that gives those feelings. My current job does give my trigger finger pause for thought which I never expected when I started out on the journey…

    TFJ

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    1. Good to hear of a succesful transition, I must watxh that movie one day 😉

      Certainly if you can make controlled transition that’s a good way to go. It’s harder to make a change mid-career, particularly from a relativeley well paying job, presumably they pay for some skill in actioan and that can be hard to match in a new field. And what happened to me probably haens to many, we get complacent and don’t watch our backs for secular changes is nindustry and the specific company, so get caught on the hop. Sounds like you managed this transition much better, saw ahead and switched tracks. Chapeau!

      The power balance shifts a lot working post FI. Before that you do what the Man says because dreadful things happen in your life if the money flow stops, you have no choice. I still remember wanting to punch the twat in some rah-rah session at The Firm that said you’re there because you want to be, in a narrow sense, yes. Big picture, not so much.

      I’ve never worked for an employer since leaving The Firm but I didn’t feel the same pressure ever since, but I did tend to choose hit and run jobs that were one-offs or short things afterwards specifically because I didn’t want to get locked into performance management BS, and I never depended on the income.

      So it’s great to hear that it is possible to develop a second act. I don’t know anybody who has done that full-time, but let it be an inspiration to anyone who sees the change coming – effective action is possible!

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