Millennials can chill about not having massive savings

… because they’re young. Young people generally don’t have savings, and it beats me where the idea came from that they should have. H/T to Monevator, who introduced me to the idea that people in FT land are feeling troubled that only one in six millennials have £100,000 in savings. My personal reaction to that was WTF, what do these guys know that I didn’t?

I was in my late 40s before I ever saw an account with six figures to my name. Apparently you need a deposit of £100k to buy a house in London. Housing has always been expensive in London. I was born in London, went to university there, and spend the first decade of my working life there. I had job-switched a few times and the Bank of England inflation calculator tells me I was earning reasonably well for a twenty-something. I was single and child-free.

What was the best housing situation I could afford back then? A single rented room in a HMO in Ealing where I had to put salt round the periphery to prevent black slugs invading the place. This was an upgrade on the various rooms in shared houses I’d lived in before. I was in my late 20s, and no, I didn’t really have any savings either, other than about £5k, because I had believed that I needed to pay the fees of my MSc course myself, but it turned out that the Manpower Services Commission gave me a grant. It still didn’t help me buy a house in London.

So I moved out of London. The problem of not having a deposit was still there, but when I moved to Ipswich I was earning better and the prospects for salary increases were better for me. So I borrowed about £10k from a MBNA credit card on interest-free credit for a year to put down as a deposit for a house, perpetrating the single greatest piece of financial folly in my entire life – buying a house at a market high. I used my better salary to pay down that interest-free card over the year – I really did pay 0% on it. But I didn’t have savings of £15k from the start. Those were more innocent times, when mortgage companies looked at only your salary and didn’t ask about CC debts, because such debt was not as commonplace as now.

That £15k deposit was the equivalent of £40k now. Earlier generations of Ermine weren’t any better at saving than Millennials. There is an argument that young people start off more skint now than they used to. There is a compensation for those working in cities that they observe much faster career progression in their early 30s than previous generations

so it’s difficult to tease this appart – I would say that average and middling talented young folk had an easier time in my generation that Millennials, but high-flyers have much better opportunities now, part of a general winner-takes-all trend.

The Hemingway law of motion – Slowly at first, then all of a sudden

In Hemingway’s The Sun Also Rises, there is this passage summarising  economic change

“How did you go bankrupt?” Bill asked.
“Two ways,” Mike said. “Gradually and then suddenly.”

and the principle applies to a lot of economic discourse. I found it also applies to savings, and the reasons are similar, though in reverse.

Young adults spend most of their money on living, and even in the 30s to 40s an awful lot goes into the mortgage if they have one – that was my single worst cost over that period in my life. Although all that money is going into consumerism, it is a durable consumer good, housing. You don’t see the numbers ticking up on a screen, at best you see them ticking down on a mortgage statement. Even that is not a linear progression, however, until it gets to the all of a sudden point at the end of the term

Slowly at first, and then all of a sudden. Remember the balance is my debt and their asset, it is better for me at £1k than at £16k…
Your twenties and thirties are really, really tough, financially

Because you don’t have any capital behind you, and you are trying to bootstrap yourself out of that. It’s particularly tough if your chosen lifestyle has children in it, because biology dictates that really wants to have started by your forties.

Millennials aren’t old enough to be in their forties yet. Then as they get into their forties, there is the faint sound of a distant signal, one I entirely missed.

Such passes the glory of the world, Time eats it like wormwood

The blazing fires of ambition begins to fade, things in life other than work become more important. Mark Zuckerberg put it a different way

“Young people are just smarter,” he said with a straight face. “Why are most chess masters under 30?” he asked. “I don’t know,” he answered. “Young people just have simpler lives. We may not own a car. We may not have family.” In the absence of those distractions, he says, you can focus on big ideologies. He added, “I only own a mattress.” Later: “Simplicity in life allows you to focus on what’s important.”

But there is another aspect to it, which is that as time goes by you may not take your sense of self worth quite so much from your reflected glory in other people’s eyes, as measured in your pay packet. But to have the privilege of making that call, you need to get out of the rat-race. Carl Jung put it well in a different context

we cannot live the afternoon of life according to the programme of life’s morning—for what was great in the morning will be little at evening, and what in the morning was true will at evening have become a lie.

Carl Jung Modern Man in Search of a Soul

There is a narrow switch-point, across one’s forties, where you can take the waning energies of the outward projection of career, and play this weakening hand into a financial system that hugely favours the better-off. In particular, higher-rate tax payers are massively favoured for saving into a pension, and you’re more likely to be in the 40% tax area if you have seen career progression.

In that sort of world, paying down your mortgage at a time of low interest rates is a serious error if you can pay the same amount into a SIPP and avoid paying 40% tax on it. For the better off millennials that is coming in the next decade – if they can forgo £60k of spending they will see £100k in their SIPP account.

I never saw a sum of £100k in any account to my name until my late 40s, and that was an ISA not a SIPP, although the SIPP did get a long way there. I’m not yet sure that yer average Millennial saving into a SIPP and expecting to retire at 67 would necessarily have got to £100k in that SIPP in their mid-30s, although those aiming for early retirement should have by now.

Like RIT, my present savings are from the Saving Hard angle, although by now investment returns are beginning to catch my younger self up, compound interest didn’t really help me get there, but it is giving my retired self a lift now.

I haven’t got a long and illustrious saving history behind me other than in being fortunate enough to have many years in a company pension. Most of my earlier saving history was buying myself out of the mortgage, in the typical young person’s saving mode with no six-figure balances to show for it.

The young Ermine was one of those average savers without any savings balances

…Until he wasn’t, as he saw the writing on the wall, but then he wan’t young any more 😉 My younger self’s greatest win was not spending more than I earned1. Young people’s saving tends to mostly take the form of paying a mortgage, reducing someone else’s asset rather than seeing their own account numbers go up. It is still a form of saving – they have given this massive claim on their future earning potential and they are chipping away at that claim.

There is a financial cycle of life. You will find it easier to work with it unless you inherit money, or are fortunate enough in both smarts and luck to make a lot of money early in life and keep it. In that cycle young people are rich in human capital and poor in financial capital. That’s why the young don’t have six-figure savings but the greybeards do. If young people do have savings in frightfully expensive London, then as the FT said in their article, those young people have either received an explicit bung from someone, or they are benefiting from an implicit bung if they are staying with their parents because that is saving them a lot of money that would otherwise be going to rent and living costs.

Millennials can chill about being young and not having savings, and the young in previous generations didn’t have loads of savings either. One in five of those feckless bastards only paid the interest on their mortgages and now act all surprised that there is such a thing as paying off the capital too, which indicates there’s plenty of financial muppetry in the older generation…

  1. with the exception of buying a house, which though stupid in timing, was largely a consumer durable. You know the pack drill, pay for cars, holidays and partying with saved cash or do without. 

31 thoughts on “Millennials can chill about not having massive savings”

  1. I think that first chart is most interesting because the peak is clearly shifting to the left, I wonder where millennials earnings are going to be in their forties and fifties.


    1. That puzzled me at the time, though it fits with my anecdotal experience. I experienced steady, but slower career progression than people doing similar engineering work, but I reached the high water-wark on retiring, which was the typical expectation in that sort of job but not borne out in the middle graph.

      With the pace of chage increasing perhaps experience counts for less and doesn’t accumulate so much now.


  2. I am relatively recently past the halfway line in life, so can only now see the coin from both sides …..the likes of Zuckerburg are still only able to see the youthful aspect – it’s very easy at that point to see a lucky break in life where you surge ahead as surely due to your own genius. As such, everyone else [in their eyes] who doesn’t seem to be battling to improve themselves must just be lazy or disinterested & those who persevere but fail are …..sadly just thick. Stick around long enough though Brah, then you will find out that life also kicks you in the groin from time to time & those who you judge as ‘losers’ don’t do it for ideology or because they are into masochism.

    Ealing was also my time when I took a baby step up from just breaking even, to living in a flat at 30 that I wasn’t ashamed to bring anyone back to. Even so, when it developed the ubiquitous London mould ‘rash’ after the obligatory paint cover-up job between tenancies & I reported it to the Landlord, I was told I would have to pay for the damage & ”open a window”. [I could have done with pellets then, but not for slugs] That’s how I was introduced to the joys of being a tenant/second class citizen – evidently I had now an extra job on top of paying most of my salary towards rent – controlling the mould potentially f’king up my health; the audacity of wanting half-decent accommodation just because you pay for it, seriously, what’re you like !

    An inconvenient truth for most who vote – & so can shift the pain their pain onto millenials, is that said youngsters for the most part won’t even have a chance to fk up as they won’t have the opportunity to earn enough to save. Apart from the silver-spoon brigade, or the amazingly lucky, the probability is that FI is a mirage now, but hey, if you’ve made it to safety in time, you can like Zuckerberg blame them for their fate …..they must have just not wanted it enough innit?


    1. I do think that FI in London isn’t for the ordinary grunt, though arguably FI is always going to be one fro those luckier in life’s lottery than most. I don’t know what you have to do to be able to afford to buy a place in London, it’s a mystery that escaped me totally, which is why I cleared off to seek my fortune elsewhere.


    1. > that’s a lot of commitment to a financial institution!

      Yes, it’s bad from a FCA compensation POV, but after a while there are only so many accounts you can split over, and I have found rebalancing is a tedious pain across multiple ISAs. Most of the institution diversification win is in the first two or three.

      A hat tip from the Ermine to getting past the marker 10 years earlier in life than I did, and as a Millennial you are that 1 in six – congratulations!


      1. If you count pensions then I have 140k in that. And more than half of that was saved on a salary of less than 30k a year. I’ve tripled that now and am 37 so expect to see that rise pretty quickly over the next few years. Only 50k in non pension saving and about 200k in equity. So it depends on how they define ‘savings’. To me they all are though I don’t tend to count house equity


      2. @Fatbritabroad

        Congratulations – I think you will experience the ramp of reverse Hemingway soon, building on that platform.

        House equity is a tough one, and it depends on what the local conditions are for renting. In the UK they are so awful that for security in old age you need to have some answer to either owning or secure renting, and housing equity counts to that, as those feckless interest-only members of the Ermine generation will discover soon.

        But in places with a more equitable balance between the interests of landlords and tenants maybe it is a moot point


  3. “… but I reached the high water-wark on retiring, which was the typical expectation in that sort of job but not borne out in the middle graph.”

    That was my experience too. I wonder how robust the calculations behind the graphs are? – after all CPI wasn’t introduced until 1996 – before that it was RPI as the standard measure of inflation. Together with ‘Pollyanna’ adjustments to RPI/CPI constituents along the way, I’m a little suspicious of the data.


    1. I don’t find the traces that hard to accept. It’s an average. After all, I will now presumably be lowering the average wages of my cohort from 52 onwards. There were many early retirees in the 1990s recessions, as many firms offed the cost of carrying the over-50s onto their company pensions schemes, many of which appeared to be in surplus at the time.

      And my experience of a steady upward progression until retirement was a white-collar job, arguably one where experience still did accumulate and the job wasn’t physically onerous. For every one of me perhaps there those in say skilled trades where age begins to make things tougher – things like plumbing, where you have to get into small spaces, gets harder in the 50s, never mind the construction workers.


  4. I wonder whether you might have made more of the demise of the Final Salary pension. These schemes are marvellous (as long as they outlast you and your widow). In the next few decades there will be a generation trying to learn how to live off a deccumulation of money-purchase pension wealth. This may not be a difficult trick to pull off in your sixties but how well will they cope in their eighties as their intellects decline? I suspect that many will cheerfully assume that the taxpayer ought to ride to their rescue.

    My wife and I did have a successful twenty year spell of investing. The success was based on timing the market. People say that that depends on luck but I think they misinterpret where the luck resides. It wasn’t luck that I managed to get in and out of equities with good timing, it was effective judgement. What was sheer bloody luck was that an equity bubble and bust coincided with a part of our lives when we had spare cash to invest. There’s no guarantee that any particular individual will be lucky enough to get such an opportunity.

    One feature of millennial financial life amuses me. They are terribly keen, it seems, to rack up one or two profitable redundancies. I suppose that attitude may change once they all have children.


    1. > This may not be a difficult trick to pull off in your sixties but how well will they cope in their eighties as their intellects decline?

      They seem to outsource this to their children 😉 Hopefully the death of the annuity will be exaggerated due to low interest rates and something like that will return, and although you need a SOLLA IFA to qualify it, there are insurance products that help in the managing the risk of outliving your money in a care home problem, once you have entered one. Assuming you still have enough money at that stage that is. But we should also recall only about a quarter of people ever enter a care home. And TBH by the time this were to come an issue for me I would hope the attitudes to assisted dying would have become more enlightened. I have no desire to be a vegetable in that stage.

      Your point about being fortunate enough to have the asset bubble at the right stage of life is very true. I was unlucky with housing though lucky enough to have a good enough job to be able to eat it, but very lucky with equities – both to learn some of the craft and then have a salutary bust, and then to have the open goal in 2009 with hardly any mortgage, at the peak of my earning career and the 40% tax lift. While there was some skill in having the cojones to buy into the suckout, the existence of it was sheer luck, for which I am deeply grateful.


  5. Housing has not always been expensive in London. In several recent decades I can remember (70s and 90s) it was bloody cheap. Million pound mansions in Hackney and Islington were given away by local councils who couldn’t wait to get shot of them

    Stuff changes. The future becomes the past. The past is another country and they do things differently there


  6. I’m Gen X and I didn’t have any savings till I was 30. Didn’t have any debt, either. I suppose the latter was a function of privilege (student debt) and having a brain cell (credit card debt).
    I wish I had had savings earlier in life and taken interest in investing. Or if not, then I wish I had at least blown it with more intent. Seriously, when I look back at some of my holidays – expensive, in amazing far away lands – I don’t recall being appropriately awed or even enjoying it as much as I now think I should have. I aways took my work laptop, I logged in whenever I could, did a couple of hours’ work a day….
    I think it’s possible to save money even in London. Of course it’s harder because of the cost of living, and also there’s more temptation to spend. A pint in Borough costs £8; since you and your friends all live in shabby flatshares you always end up going out. When you’re young you work long hours coming through the ranks, so you never cook, buy lunches (often even breakfasts). If your role is client facing you end up spending ridiculous money on workwear because some idiot some time ago said that you have to fake it till you make it… It all adds up.


    1. > A pint in Borough costs £8

      That’s horrific. It really is a different country!

      I do think if young ‘uns can eschew revolving CC debt and its personal loan allies in the early days then that’s the battle largely won at that stage. I’m still not that convinced about the magic of compound interest for the small amounts of money one can put in a pension in the 20s and early 30s, though I guess if you can, do, if only to form the habit. It’s more the ranks of old gits saying you young whippersnappers should have £x behind their name by 30 that need to knock it off. I sure as heck wasn’t worth much either at that stage, indeed I was a ball of negative equity at that time. There was still time enough to get my act together, it still broadly came good in the end.


  7. Regarding your position that paying down mortgage debt is ill-advised while interest rates are so low. Do you think that your opinion is being coloured by hindsight, i.e. years of low interest rates/ bull market?

    No one knows for how long interest rates will remain at rock bottom levels, nor for how long equities will stay rampant. As per the Hemmingway quote, when things go wrong they go wrong fast, by owning a home outright you have one less thing that can go wrong.


    1. > Regarding your position that paying down mortgage debt is ill-advised while interest rates are so low.

      The specific case was me. I discharged my mortgage soon after the suddend shock of expecting to lose my job in my very late forties, and it was the equivent of the hedgehog rolling into a ball. I was much more skint from 2009 to now than I would have been had I carried that mortage, because having busted a lot of my savings on paying that down I then had to maximise AVC (a sort fo SIPP) savings, driving down my net income massively, had to hit ESIP and had to mazximise my ISA savings to buy into that equity market on its knees. I didn’t go on holdiay for three years and cut spending to the minimum. I have been lucky with my health which held up, I have seene enough colleagues take their first heart attacks in their 50s, and there seems some correlation with stress. Had that happened, paying off that mortgage would have been a very serious misallocation of capital.

      I’d say the principle is general to someone within 5-10 years of drawing a DC pension and paying HRT tax at this time. A mortgage is a specific commitment to pay back the nominal capital, plus a general commitment to pay the interest at some prevailing rate. There’s a very good case to target one’s PCLS at that capital, and to fund that PCLS with DC pension contributions that benefit from a 40% tax benefit. If you’re only 5 years off 55, then hold the lot in your SIPP in cash, the captial doesn’t go up with inflation (though the interest can). You’ve benefited by not paying the tax, getting a 40/60 or ~60% uplift on the cash you’d have tossed into into the mortgage. Even spread over 5 years a 10% guaranteed ROI less inflation on your early payments ramping up as time goes on is not something you can get that easily elsewhere. You are paying off your capital with pre-tax savings, subject to regulatory risk of the PCLS being canned, which I would expect to be politically tough.

      Even if you are now 10 years off 55, I’d say you will get five years of interest rates below those I paid for most of my mortgage life (~6%p.a. on average). If you’re saving 40% tax on that capital, you can afford to suck up higher interest rates for the last five years. But there is a presumption that you will be earning more and money will be easier towards the end of your working life than when you are mid-way.

      Monevator’s alter ego TA made the case for using an ISA or pension as the capital repayment vehicle for an interest-only mortgage. That made more sense in 2013 than now. It probably still makes sense if you have 20 years to go, but I personally wouldn’t have the cojones to start that at current market valuations, but I suspect I am a wuss. The intellectual case is still good, but you need to be able to live the theory come hell or high water, because if you bail at the low-water mark you’d be better paying down the mortgage.


  8. My life experience refutes the impossibility of saving in London on a decent-but-not-rock-star salary, but then I also invest actively without blowing my own feet off and have spent 10-20 hours a week writing a blog all about money and investing, so I accept I don’t really scale. 🙂

    p.s. Thanks for the link.

    p.p.s. Spoiler alert: My new mortgage is interest-only!

    Liked by 1 person

    1. but then I also invest actively without blowing my own feet off

      It took me up to my 40s to learn not to do that* by experience, and there are plenty enough that never learn, so no, you are an outlier and don’t scale at all 😉 While I’m all for the passive investing mantra, it’s steady as she goes and won’t move things along fast enough to get average to modestly well-off millennials living in the Great Wen up to six-figure savings yet. Hosimpson paying £8 a pint still disturbs me…

      > p.p.s. Spoiler alert: My new mortgage is interest-only!

      I would hope nothing less of the fellow who brought us the Can you afford NOT to have a big cheap mortgage?! Filling out the qualifying form must have been an odd experience, most people are supplicants for their first house. I can picture the interview now.

      Q: So Sir, how much have you got for the deposit? [pause] You have more than the capital cost of the house? Why are you coming to us for a mortgage then?

      A: Well, it’s a long story. See this article 🙂

      * the jury’s still out I guess, I could still fall in the next bear market or three that I will probably live to see…


  9. I’ll wade in as a millennial here (still just about mid-20s). I managed to save 100k well before my 30s and I would say most of my generation could *in principle* have done the same thing +/- a few years by following a similar route; they just didn’t think of it, didn’t fancy it, had some bad luck along the way or whatever. I do agree with Survivor’s point that they’re not losers for no having done so.

    The crux of it, though, is that I had very low accommodation expenses. Living with wealthy parents is absolutely not the only way to achieve this. Life in the on an oil rig/cruise ship/in the military/as a park ranger/housesitter/one of Hugh Heffner’s Playmates etc. isn’t for everyone, but options do exist. Once people realise this, the potential savings calculations stop looking quite so dire.


    1. I hope I didn’t give the impression it was impossible – outliers will always be able to achieve results several standard deviations from the mean. It was the observations of old gits that young ‘uns should have achieved such notable savings at ages when previous generations hadn’t in general done it either. Making one’s way in the world is tough enough as it is without people telling you that the difficult was routine in their day 😉

      Most of the PF numbers changes in my life happened after I was 35, but a lot of the spadework happened before then, I just didn’t really have much to show for it. Absolutely agree that getting your living costs lower is a key win – I rented those crappy dives not because I was too poor to do better, but because I was too tight to do it. Then I spunked far too much money on housing in ’89 at a market high, but at least it wasn’t throwing money at a landlord, how dumb was I 😉 But it still came out all right. You can make the odd PF error, it is serial screwups that are deadly…


      1. Entirely agree (and no criticism intended in my initial post btw). Just that there is already a view amongst some of my peers that saving is impossible and therefore not worthwhile – a narrative sometimes stoked by the media, and which can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.


  10. I agree your main point ermine. Looking at where my millenial son is at the moment two thoughts come to mind.

    1. There are other things to worry about apart from savings. When you are still building your life, your marriage, your career etc, obsessing about savings may not be top of the priority list. And I would agree with that.

    At his age I certainly had other things to do (which ultimately led to greater financial stability later in life)

    2. Luck. I was in the right place at the right time to land some interesting and lucrative jobs. Being smart and hardworking is not sufficient, you need to be lucky as well. I know many people at least as smart as I am and possibly more hardworking who have not done as well over the years. It is something that really irritates me when people ascribe their success to their specialness, and do not account for the luck they have experienced, from birth family, to location, to which teachers you got when, to sheer random chance. It is one of the nastier aspects of our current political environment that poverty is seen as a moral failure; a position straight out of the Victorian playbook.

    As part of that luck, I got slotted into final salary pensions in my first two careers without even being asked, and without me playing any attention to it (see 1). Those pensions form a substantial part of FI for me. It was not until I was in my late forties and building my own business that I had to worry about my own savings/pension provision. By that time I had got through the blur of building my life and early family and was able to take time to think things through and make a plan. As a result, I have been able to add significantly to the FI buffer. But that was not a given when I set up a business, and once a gain luck played a huge part.

    My son is still in that early stage. My advice to him has been build your life and the savings will come, rather than build your savings and your life will come. And always recognise the part that luck plays in how things turn out. Be bloody grateful for whatever good comes your way, and never look down on those for whom it did not work out so well.

    Liked by 2 people

  11. Hi there,
    I read your article with interest, particularly because it is against the common wisdom that Millennials should worry because of their lack of savings.
    Even though I enjoyed the read, I am not convinced. For two reasons: i) Starting to save early, ideally in the 20ies with the first job, is the key to FIRE, something Millennials are clearly missing out on. ii) Avoiding real estate as a means of saving (we can argue if this is a good means ;-)) as Millennials supposedly prefer sharing should increase the pressure on other savings options – your article seems to suggest the opposite, i.e., to chill.
    Unless we suggest Millennials should give up on FIRE alltogether, I still believe they should start worrying rather sooner than later and start saving!


    1. It depends what they mean by the RE part, if you want to retire in your 40’s then yes, you need to be earning well and saving well in your 20s. But I had no savings until I was into my 30s, and I only started in the final salary pension scheme at 29.

      People who are going to FI nowadays tend to experience faster career progression than I did, but the curve starts to tail off earlier it seems. I experienced steady real terms career progression, if anything picking up towards the end. But the area under the graph, the integreted real terms earnings, is significantly more in the aged 21 in 1995 than the age 21 in 85.

      I recall the bootstrapping process in the 20s and early 30s as really tough and didn’t have much to show for it until 35. I still got to knock 8 years from my original retirement plans, and 15 years off State retirement age when that got more important to me.

      Increasing inequality probably has a hand to play – young ‘uns who are on track to RE are probably making a lot more than I was at their age in real terms, if they are in finance in London for instance. Against that there are probably more struggling to save anything at all and that will persist across much of their working lives, but these aren’t part of the FI/RE crew of course.


  12. @ ermine, ~ 10 years later in calendar time than you, this was my exact performance record too, except with the wealth/employment conditions deterioration on a national scale, those humble achievements were devalued in comparison despite initially, superficially looking similar on paper. ‘It depends what they mean by the RE part, if you want to retire in your 40’s then yes, you need to be earning well and saving well in your 20s. But I had no savings until I was into my 30s, and I only started in the final salary pension scheme at 29.’

    For example, when I started my company pension scheme, also at 29, there was only a defined contribution one on offer – which was so poor, that for years, any gain in interest was more or less cancelled out by inflation – it was effectively performing as a savings account instead of the advertised investment vehicle….. This is not to compete in a pythonesque poverty duet, but just to illustrate the ongoing trend, to show that millenials will face an even steeper incline on the treadmill of life as their employment terms gradually but steadily deteriorate over the course of their work lifespan.

    @ Meine finanzielle Freiheit, I have a much younger sibling I am guessing faces your situation & it is for sure dispiriting, but I would say that using financial intelligence/discipline as a weapon is more necessary for your generation than ever, even just for self-defense. Even if you don’t see now how to reach financial independence, you should exercise good financial commonsense, or your life would still much likely be worse…’s no longer a choice if you can see the trend into the future, every degree of freedom gained is a worthwhile improvement in quality of life. Scientific studies have shown that the single greatest factor in creating satisfaction at work is how much power you have over your own life/day there – the possibility to make decisions within your control as opposed to having to just follow orders. [so it was not money, title or the other more obvious things you may have guessed]


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